Quin

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:51 PM) Out of curiosity, if the Shields trade had never happened, what is your best guess as to where you would have ranked Tatis in the Sox system? Northside is better to ask this than me, but I'd say high 30s to mid 40s. QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:55 PM) well the Sox valued him ($700,000) the same as our #7 prospect curbelo. That's not how Latin America signings work compared to the draft.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:47 PM) Anyone who follows the major league organization, not just the major league team, should be aware; perhaps not of Tatis specifically, but of the importance of those A ball players in developing an org. Once again see the Red Sox,Cubs, Dodgers: teams that actually developed great systems. Tatis was a WhiteSox bonus baby. They are still paying $9 million per for a pitcher with bad peripherals. I note with interest that the Jays are only paying $5 million per and Upton was having a good year (and Shields was not, to say the least). I wasn't lamenting tatis in my post anyway. My point is if they can get out of this essentially as a wash, they should take it and run. Considering Hansel Rodriguez made the Blue Jay's FutureSox equivalent's "Others of Note" section on their rankings, he was higher in their organization than Tatis in ours. http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015/12/30/...spects-for-2016 Therefore, you of all people should hate that deal.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:28 PM) All you have to know is the Sox gave him $700K to sign which is a boatload for this org. Here's how often people mentioned him before June this year. https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Asoxt...2F2016&tbm= Sorry, he was mentioned once. When signed. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...p;#entry3190653

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) Lot of people thought that was a dumb trade at the time and even more do now, so don't try to bully Greenie. And I guarantee 95% of the people on the board didn't give a s*** about Tatis and probably were writing him off as a White Sox LatAm signing. My guess is a vast majority of the board didn't even know he existed. After the trade many were penciling him in as a future MLB player.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:03 PM) If his physical went well, they would have acquired Arrieta. Of course that's a Baltimore physical. Probably 95% of this year's Olympians would fail. Sigh

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:10 PM) Until one of those A ball international guys turns out good.....like Montas and several on the Cubs and Redsox. Regardless, just getting that contract off the books would be a plus. The Lat Am prospects have been improving, a couple popping up on the Top 30. I guarantee no one, including you, would have given a damn about Tatis if he wasn't in the Shields deal. As for Shields' contract, it's not bad for the Sox because the Padres are picking up so much.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 01:56 PM) Ranaudo optioned to Charlotte. Well that sucks.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 12:42 PM) CBS Sportsline has a story this morning that the Yankees have called Hahn multiple times and are pushing to try to get Sale. Mark Yankees would need to make it a 3-way deal to get better prospects for Sale.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 12:28 PM) I could care less if they are god awful next year, they have been god awful since mid-May. At least this way there is a light at the end of the tunnel where they may have some pieces to contend at some point. The Sox as they stand are going to continue to be perpetually a middle of the road team. Yes, I know. My point is outside of Rodon and possibly Fulmer, none of us should give a s*** what's in the rotation next year. Unless they snag Urias and DeLeon from the Dodgers. You're tanking for the top pick and developing arms like Hansen, Burdi and Adams.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 11:29 AM) I'm just not enthused with Texas top prospects we could get for Sale or Q. Boston or LA for me. Maybe Houston. If I'm Hahn, I'm only using Texas for posturing.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 11:21 AM) I don't see the Sox trading both Sale and Quintana. Gonzalez is gone next year and they'd probably prefer to dump Shields if they can. If all four of those guys are gone, they have Rodon, an unproven Fulmer, and three holes to fill. If think it's more likely that Hahn deals Sale for a couple of really good young ML-ready players and a veteran #3 or #4 starter sometime in the next 12 months. Welcome to rebuilding. If they start a rebuild, expect them to be god awful next year.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 11:35 AM) I put everyone ahead of Reagan. This - well, anybody normally in the discussion. We've had some s***ty presidents (Franklin Pierce is on a tier of his own). Reagan bombed the economy. I think history will look at Obama extremely favorably. His historical ranking will be quite interesting to look at.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 11:08 AM) We have different definitions of ridiculous returns, that's the point. Getting two top ten prospects plus other interesting players would be a very strong trade. But the laundry list of we need Moncada and benintendi and kopach and devers and ...it's just unrealistic. I know it is unrealistic, because if I was the Red Sox, I would not make that trade. Part Moancada, Benintendi, Devers and Swihart. Sale/Q's price alone covers the first three. Robertson could justify Swihart on his own with the current market. Then give them a starter to make get the trigger pulled. Likewise with Urias, Pederson, De Leon and someone like Montas or Verdugo.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 10:56 AM) I think the issue I have with value right now is on this board nobody seems to give credit to the red sox that it's not just their top 5 picks, they are all top 100 or near top 100. So getting top ten prospects would be more important than getting 3 30-70 prospects elsewhere, even if you could get a top 100 prospect on its own for someone like Shields (GREAT value). Anyway, won't happen. But I'm very, very confident that moncada/benintendi will be very good. And Eaton I imagine will age well. Moncada/Benintendi/Anderson/Collins is a young core that I can say is worth building around and would not give any crap to Front Office if thye didn't pan out. Yeah, that's why Hahn needs to play the Dodgers, Red Sox, Astros and Rangers against one another while simultaneously sweetening the pot a bit.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 10:47 AM) Reagan was president when our biggest existential threat went kaput (i mean technically on the way to kaput). In terms of consequential, it doesn't get much bigger than that since Truman. I just posted the consequential video to reinforce what Obama has done. For me, Reagan also put in place the economic framework that led to the Great Recession. Maybe he doesn't beat him handidly, but I think Obama even trumps Reagan.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 10:35 AM) OK, on Fulmer. I'm no scout or pro evaluator I admit. But probably the biggest game of his life....fastball 91-92? what the hell? I understand being all over the place with control, but you'd think he'd be overthrowing, not trying to throw darts. Maybe to fight nerves he felt like he needed more control?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 10:44 AM) To add to Q's point, if adding Jason Hammel was the reason the Cubs got Addison Russell, you add an extra piece. Yeah, this was what I was getting at. Sale and Q >>> Shark, but if Dombrowski or Friedman want to get Shields/Gonzalez or Jones/Robertson/Duke/Jennings to make themselves feel better about giving up more high ceiling prospects, do it.

Honestly, how far back do you have to go to get a President better than Obama? He beats out Clinton, both Bushes, Reagan, Carter, Ford and Nixon handidly. LBJ has the Civil Rights movement, but he has Vietnam. Dwight would be a good argument. Truman as well. Obviously FDR is often regarded as a Top 3 president, so it couldn't get past him.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 10:28 AM) The first two are really one thing, and the fastball tops more like 95-96. Are you evaluating based on one outing? The Sox rushed him. He was just starting to get a good rhythm as a starter in BHAM, and I think they made a huge mistake doing what they did. It makes no sense having him the major league bullpen. I figured it would be a spot start, not keeping him here.

I don't know if there has ever been a team in this position. Strong seller's market (especially for pitching) with two young, left-handed aces under control that teams are banging down the door for. A stud in RF. Four BP arms that can draw interest. Two veteran hitters (Frazier and Melky) that could draw interest.

Could also look to the Giants. They have Conor Gillaspie manning the hot corner currently, with Duffy out to injury.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 10:15 AM) As someone mentioned, a bit bummed to see the top ten just with our recent draft. Reminds me of the dark days 5-6 years ago where every draft pick was our new #1 prospect, and last years fell into the teens with disappointing productoin. If someone like Engel starts raking in AAA though, it will be worth it. But really need some pitching to start coming through. This is a combination of that, but also because a lot of us are big fans of this draft. Curbelo was a sixth round pick and higher than Fisher or Call. Hansen had 1-1 potential going into the year. Burdi can be stretched into a starter. Personally, I'm a huge fan of Hostetler's drafting approach.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 09:48 AM) would you rather have Call or Coats? What's the downside with Danny Hayes? One of the few guys we have with decent plate discipline. Call has the higher ceiling, but Coats keeps producing on every level. Hayes' injuries this year likely put a huge dent in his rankings. I was one of the few to include him and I could have just as easily left him off.

Obama was great. He could have done more without Congress hamstringing him. But that speech...amazing.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 27, 2016 -> 06:40 PM) But aren't my charges of Hillary being a horrificly weak candidate also true? I still can't fathom why people had it out for Bernie except the simple reason the Clinton machine must roll on. Chelsea looked Presidential in her seat last night as I watched Bill speak like Bill speaks (very very charming; I told u I loved Bill). I have no idea though why the country wants 16 more years of Clinton. It's not like they wave the wand and America is great again. Oh dear god Greg your opinions are so fear based and off base.