kitekrazy

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 09:56 AM) Nothing like zero accountability. I guess if you want to go that route, they both stay. Team will win more game this season than last, without the production of two guys who produced a total of 51 HRs, 156 RBIs. They will come close to matching last year's production. So more stealing, bunting, giving up outs hasn't really hurt. The only thing that hurts is the team in your division is playing extremely high winning percentage since the ASB. On paper it appears Danks is improving but you have to question his mental makeup. Floyd is getting worse. The biggest improvement has been the fielding. Steve Rosenbloom made a good point about ignoring the health of the pen and let the pitchers play doctor. I'd still like to have those 5 games back the pen blew.

QUOTE (Butter Parque @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 11:16 AM) Thome had pretty high OBP's for us in his last two seasons, but I didn't notice him making much of a difference game in and game out. Thome has the same amount of home runs in a hundred less AB's this season. Do you really think he would have looked reborn with us? Fat Chance. He also has one more double than last season already and 36 less strikeouts. In the same way that Lew Ford, Danny Valencia, Jason Tyner and Doug Mientkiewicz probably wouldn't hit the same way for other teams as they do with Minnesota, the same can be said about Thome. I truly believe Thome would have had a similar season for us this year, that he had last year, and while that may still be much better than Kotsay, that also doesn't make him a difference maker. Excellent. It's not like Kenny had a chance to replace those 24HR, 77 RBIs. Gardenhire probably handled Thome's playing time better than the Sox would have. He also got to see better pitches batting 7th. Thome's not going to be helping them as much help if that cold air moves in Oct for home games and you never know what will happen in NY. If the Twins face TB, I like their chances because Thome will be in the lineup in that dome. This isn't the first guy we've seen go to another organization and have better success. Often it's in more consistent winning organizations. Environment has something to do with it. People forget that even in more team oriented sports like football.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 10:53 AM) And Ozzie is an idiot for demanding Kotsay be on the team and given those at bats. Hopefully he's seen enough to know it was a bad idea. Or how much is enough? Maybe Kenny will trade him behind Ozzie's back. Kotsay is the new Mackowiak. Only fans get tired of seeing him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 11:47 AM) but writing off the defense of a 21 year old is just about as silly as writing off the bat of a 20 year old in AA, as a lot of people did with Viciedo after last year. Isn't that what the organization is doing? I don't know. Do they play him at 3rd in the minors?

QUOTE (hitlesswonder @ Sep 14, 2010 -> 10:08 PM) KW cost the Sox the division this year. The litany of bad moves is ridiculous: Swisher trade to NYY Vazquez trade Teahen acquisition and extension Kotsay over Thome Hudson for Jackson I know some of those moves were pre-2010, but they still affect this year's club. Those are all truly awful trades (or FA choices). Even the Pierre trade was bad, IMO. Pierre managed an OK OBP this season, but the Sox are still locking up $8M in a left fielder with a sub-.700 OPS. Next year looks awful. They have too much money locked up in junk like Teahen, Pierre, Linebrink to go with an overpaid Edwin Jackson and Jake Peavy...there's no money or minor league talent to fill the holes on the team. I wouldn't be ready to predict the sky will fall in 2011. I think the organization's biggest mistake was thinking the Twins would not be that good this year. It looks like the Sox were assembled to win a division more than a World Series. I can't see anyone thinking before the season started this team could beat the Yankees outside of "anything could happen". Kenny has done a great job of getting some to believe this is all on Ozzie. I doubt for one minute Ozzie was comfortable with having Kotsay play more. The money they were willing to pay for Damon hints at this.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 14, 2010 -> 11:32 PM) I watched the Club after the game tonight. They had Kenny and his band of wise men weighing in on a possible trade for Hudson and more for Jackson. Listening to some of input he was getting. Its time to clean house on a large scale. Put Hahn in charge, and then wipe it out. You based your judgment on a TV show? Those move makes sense in short term when you need experience in a pennant race. The long term implications may not be so good. I think Jackson is a Boras client and JR doesn't like that. Once again we see the Sox cry poor but their actions always contradict that. It's hard to tell how this will pan out. I think people get too carried away that Hudson is doing well in a weak league and a team with no pressure.

QUOTE (since56 @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 09:57 AM) Viciedo can not play defense, anywhere. Checking other Sox boards, that seems to be the verdict. I haven't seem him play. Sounds like the typical White Sox organization that can load up with future DH/1B. I'd love for the DH to be out of baseball so more youngster would be forced to learn how to catch a baseball. Sounds like Viciedo is Josh Fields III.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 02:56 AM) that's because Ozzie is the one who insisted on playing NL style slappy run baseball and run into out after out after out after out. odd how they already matched last year's victories and the season isn't over

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 03:00 AM) Also, you know what? The Mark Teahen trade was not terrible. We traded a piece of crap third baseman who is worse defensively than Teahen, gives no hustle, and can't hit a fastball along with a second baseman with the power of Juan Pierre, no average, average at best defense, and has more magical injuries than anyone in the world. Also, over a full season Teahen had never been this bad defensively. What was bad was the extension, thats it. Yeah that extension is mind boggling.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 01:48 AM) Swisher is a very good player who had a bad year with the Sox. He is hitting .288 with a .876 OPS and 26 HRs this year. The problem with the Swisher trade was dumping him for nothing the next year when his value was at its lowest point. And Clayton Richard isn't excellent, he is a product of pitching in San Diego just like just about everyone else on that staff. I remember how bad that trade was getting Betimit who sucked but eventually hurt the Sox being on the Royals. So he's hurt the team twice. Back to Swisher, funny how players change when they go to a team where winning is a habit.

QUOTE (Cali @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 12:48 AM) Dude this needs to be a separate new topic in the main board. Because I totally agree. The worst thing it did was save Ozzie's job. If they wound up losing 80+ games there would have been lots of pressure to fire Ozzie in the winter. Now, maybe not so much AND in crazy peoples minds it might make it seem like he was "right" about the rotating DH, Ugh..... I don't see the logic about wanting to lose games so they can fire a manager. It appears the team is better than last year. Is that Ozzi's fault too? Few projected the Sox to win this division because there were too many question marks. Looks like most were right.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 11:58 PM) Yet still not good enough to do anything with it. Congrats to them. As I said, gone after round 1. Yea Yea yea...I'd rather be there than in 2nd. When it becomes a consistency "at least we were there" doesn't cut it. Just check out their fan boards. Johann Santana wanted out because he felt the ownership wasn't into winning a World Series. With a top 10 attendance this season they might go free agent hunting so that no one in this division can touch them.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 11:50 PM) Glad for Thome, but the Twins will be soundly eliminated by the Yankees or Rays in Round 1. I really have no delusions that team will do squat...against us they do no wrong, they hit every pitch, they make every catch, they get every stupid fooking break....but they'll be dispatched quickly once post-season begins and they aren't playing the White Sox. How we beat them in that playoff game 2 years ago is a mystery to me. Guess Danks had Jobu with him. I think the Twins match up better to the Rays. Yankees, Twins are toast.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 11:41 PM) I dont like the idea of rebuilding. Sox had a chance, it didnt work out. You go back to the drawing board and come back better. Only way to rebuild is start only with the farm and get good scouts. Getting Beckham and Sale shows signs the scout are doing their jobs.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 11:37 PM) Exactly. You know what you are going to get out of those guys. There's no question, the roster is going to have to be tweaked, maybe a lot to convince people they can beat Minnesota, but to go into full rebuilding mode now, with the talent on hand and the condition of the divison is ridiculous. Its too bad they will more than likely be "stretched" for cash again, because one way to instantly upgrade your roster is the willingness to take on some money. You wonder how stretched they really are for cash when they were willing to pay Manny $4m for a month of baseball. They've cried poor before and seem to come up with this money.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 11:22 PM) I did not know that. Very intersting. Kudos to the Reds for pulling that off somehow. All you have to do is win games you are suppose to. I think when the Rays were bad they still gave the Yankees fits.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 11:30 PM) Definitely throw Morel at 3B and let him get a feel for his future. And let Mark Teahen and Mark Kotsay get a job at a carwash and let them get a feel for their future. I get the feeling Morel's future is opening day 2011 regardless if he can hit the ball or not. It will be the 2nd player that they will have to push thru the system because Kenny's replacements at 3rd really suck. If it wasn't for Omar we might have seen him this year.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 11:26 PM) Seriously. They are playing .719 ball since the All-Star Break. Take away the 12 games vs. the Sox, and they are still playing .711 ball. Time to tip your cap and face the facts, Twins >>> Sox Eventually they will have to come back down to earth and it will be at the wrong time called the post season.

BTW wasn't Morel offered as part of compensation for Manny at one time?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 11:12 PM) I'd put the tank at third every game the rest of the year. Thanks Omar for everything, but no reason for him to play anymore. They also ought to move CQ to left and give Juan the rest of the year off. Any starter with a tired arm might as well be sent home. I'd rather make CQ the full time DH and let Manny butcher the outfield so Carlos doesn't break something. Of course we can have more Kotsay in the outfield. Maybe more Kotsay Ozzie will realize "gee what wuz I thinkin of".

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 11:01 PM) I'm glad I'm not the kind of fan who thinks Ozzie sucks and needs to go. Less stress in my fandom since I think our manager is fine. It was interesting to see Thome all fired up in the dugout as they ran over us again tonight. Yes, we erred in not bringing him back, yet I'm not convinced he'd have led us to the division title. He can't pitch the ball. I'm sure this is one of his most satisfying seasons. Veteran studs/Hall of Famers always like to prove people wrong and by the Sox not wanting him, I'd think it gave him that little extra edge at 40 that probably helped motivate him even more. He sucked in his role as Dodger pinch hitter last year. This was a nice boost for him and he nets a huge contract next year because of this resurgence. I hope he leads them to the WS title. I doubt Thome gets a huge contract next year. He probably won't lead them to a WS Title. Cooler weather will be coming in and that doesn't go well with Thome's back. I still want to see this team win 90 games.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 10:55 PM) The vets have had a long season that has vetted out most of the peaks and valleys. They have a history that isnt going to be overwritten by a few games in September. The better use of the remaining games is to get the kids out on the field and see what they can do. Not really when other teams are putting out their minor leaguers. I think we will see the kids but in small doses.

QUOTE (hitlesswonder @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 10:37 PM) Why, when the Sox lose, do so many people think things would be better if the Sox could just bunt more (or better)? The Sox already bunt way too much. The Sox lost tonight because the pitching got shelled. If Gavin pitches like an ace, the Sox win. It also would help if the Sox had one or two more players that could hit the snot out of the ball on a semi-regular basis. I'd rather see that than a bunch of homegrown Nick Puntos. As far as teaching the "White Sox Way" and fielding, the best gloves on the field tonight for the Sox were Rios and Ramirez neither of which learned to field in the Sox minor league system. The Sox need better players. From anywhere. Only until this season Ramirez would not be even considered a great fielder. He played much better once Omar started playing 3rd. The station to station and homerun or nothing hasn't made the Sox win either. They need to find the right balance. Still people overlook the obvious that the pitching was the paper tiger. Danks and Floyd may be regressing when they should be progressing.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 10:46 PM) They are in job preservation mode. Get to 90 wins and call this season a success. Actually guys like Jenks and AJ are in job preservation mode. Kenny's got some decisions to make on veterans. Why not let them play the season out. The kids will still be around if Kenny doesn't trade them.

QUOTE (J.Reedfan8 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 10:37 PM) I honestly hope JR grows some balls for once and steps in. I don't think Ozzie will listen to Kenny. That is ridiculous. Whats he trying to prove? Pretty much everyone mins the WC teams will clinch so he doesn't have the "pride" excuse anymore. What he wants his managing record to look good this year? It's really pathetic. What makes you think Kenny disagrees with that? Maybe certain veteran players will finish better and make for some trade bait. Like Linebrink or Teahan.