Eminor3rd

Lol what an awful pitch.

At that price, maybe I AM on the Calhoun train.

Ok,12m? Doesn’t change the point.

CC was wayyy better when he hit FA than MB is now. He was coming off a 7 win season, sub-2 FIP

Bumgarner is a Felix Hernandez 30. He debuted at 20, and has been a horse since 21. Lotta miles on the arm and the decline in stuff reflects it.

Dirtbag franchise

That’s the problem — they aren’t really. Those guys are each gonna end up with AAV’s in the 15m range. Get those two and a reliever, and maybe a washed up 5th starter, and you’re looking at 40-50m

I think he’s gonna give up dingers. I don’t see him as an alternative to Wheeler or even Odorizzi, and especially not at a comparable contract.

Bumgarner is being dangerously overrated at this point.

Yeah, the player dev angle is the one I’m most disappointed with. It isn’t that difficult to poach secrets from successful orgs — in fact I’ve been told it’s one of the things that those orgs worry about the most. All their hiring are public, you can physically see the facilities easily, and if you want, you can pretty much get any guy you want from the Astros/Yankees/etc. if you’re willing to give the person a big raise or promotion. The fact that the White Sox have objectively been one of the absolute worst at PD in an age where information is more freely available than ever speaks to some real troubling issues, whether it’s incompetence or a lack of willingness to invest.

I’m just as skeptical/pessimistic as you about it. I’m just trying to point out that it’s a much larger problem than one man.

For sure — all of the executives’ fingerprints are there. But there’s no way to know how much JR trusts RH. Or, for that matter, even if he DOES trust him completely, how many times RH has gone to JR and said “we need this guy, it’s gonna cost x” and JR has simply said it’s too much. And that goes for way more than just player acquisition — it goes for investments in player dev as well. Coaches, facilities, technology, etc.

Right — that’s my point. It’s easy to blame Rick Hahn for signing mediocre, mid-level free agents for example. But what makes us think he ever had clearance to actually get the more expensive guys in the first place? Theres a failure there, but who can we really attribute it to? We can’t know unless we are in the room. When we don’t sign Gerrit Cole this year, we will all go “dang Rick Hahn, why wouldn’t he beat that offer? Doesn’t he know how much this team needs Gerrit Cole?” Of course he does! If he didn’t beat the offer it’s because he couldn’t.

My point is that Rick Hahn is way less personally responsible for all of those things as everyone seems to believe. He has the big paycheck and so he can be the scapegoat (that’s fair), but the actual issues with team’s ability to field a winner are much more numerous and they aren’t all in the GM’s ability to correct.

You pretty much answered it in your last paragraph. He’s the name on the door, but a huge percentage of the decisions that lead to the success of the players are made by other people, and a huge percentage of the spending decisions that he directly handles are made by ownership. Rick Hahn’s personal skillset is just one of myriad factors that affect all the things in your OP. To be clear, in case you feel like I’m attacking your post personally, what I’m saying refers just as much to the original notion that Hahn being “smart guy” will make the team successful.

It appears that you missed my point entirely.

The widely-held misconception that the GM is primarily responsible for all the things listed in the OP is fascinating to me, because it leads fans to spend a lot of time and energy forming very strong opinions about these people as if they can actually know them — which, since no one actually can, on either side of the argument, leads almost to the creation of a fictional universe inside a fans mind where being the GM of a team is actually just like playing OOTP. Where people actually think that each decision is made by a single person, inside the near vacuum of how a fan views the game — virtually ignoring all the context of running a business, such as satisfying ownerships demands, balancing a budget that achieves revenue and profit goals, professional development of employees who have been delegated important tasks, etc. There’s no doubt that this franchise has been a joke the last ten or fifteen years, from top to bottom — certainly in terms of performance on the field and, from all outward appearances, as a brand and promotional entity as well. But the line of thought that connects a poster talking about Rick Hahn as an intelligent person based on his education and mannerisms and another poster arguing the opposite using evidence such as the White Sox’ lack of success acquiring amateur talent in Latin America is bizarre.

I was gonna say the same thing. Ironically, winning makes his non-tender way more likely.

It says the Angels will sign Cole Hamels

Nomar Mazara is the Rangers version of Avisail Garcia.

He just broke his toe in the Premier 12 tourney a couple days ago. High contact, good discipline, tons of doubles and sneaky line drive homer pop. Five time golden glove CF, but everyone agrees he’s lost a step or two. Taller nori aoki with more power and better defense.

A couple thoughts: 1. I think Madison Bumgarner is going to be a big mistake for someone if he gets that kind of money. He’s a once dominant guy who has had a great career, but he’s in clear decline and his regression has been masked by his home park for the past couple years. The velo is down, the fly balls are up, and I think he would be an awful match for us. I would rather sign every other pitcher in his tier, especially for that money. Odorizzi especially, and maybe even Ryu or Keuchel at the lower prices they should command. 2.) I think Tsutsugoh will get a touch more than that, but not too much. And I love the idea of it as well — it’s a low risk solution to a big hole we have that has some real upside. I think he’s more likely a AAAA guy than an above average MLb hitter, but the latter is very possible. And I feel more confident about it now that I’ve seen some of his exit velos. The ship has sailed, unfortunately, on Yuki Yanagita. He signed a three year extension prior to this season, he’s already 31, and he’s starting to get really banged up. He lost most of this year to leg injuries and didn’t look like himself when he got back. Legs and back have been haunting him the past few years. It’s too bad; what a fun player to watch. I don’t think anyone on earth swings harder than he does, lol. The guy to watch for, on the position player side, is Seiya Suzuki. He’s the best hitter in the league right now, he’s only 25, and although it’s a corner profile, he’s considered a tick above average defensively. Elite plate discipline, great bat control and power, esteemed teammate. Won this years HR derby. And I think there’s a chance the Carp may actually post him over the next year or two. Him and Masataka Yoshida are the two hitters that I think are actually likely to be truly above average MLb guys right away, but Yoshida’s defense is worse and he’s had some injury problems himself. But man, that bat speed. 3. I would much rather get Ozuna than Puig at that price. I’m okay with Puig as an idea, but his inconsistency bothers me on more than a two year deal.

I don’t see the point of overpaying an injury-prone, mid-30s third baseman to convince him to change positions to be a short term stopgap for two of our top prospects (Vaughn, Collins) when a short-term stopgap already exists (Jose Abreu) and is loved in the clubhouse. Yeah he’s a bit better than a Abreu, but let’s spend the money on pitching instead.

QO working as intended. It’s there to steal leverage from players in negotiations, under the guise of “competitive balance.” This is JR using one of his tailor made weapons. Ill be surprised if Jose doesn’t sign a two or three year deal at $12-15m AAV. And, if he doesn’t, it’ll be a big signal that the White Sox probably are actually going to try to trade for JD Martinez lol.

wat