Eminor3rd

QUOTE (cjgalloway @ Nov 21, 2017 -> 12:56 PM) I don't see how limiting it to 2017 international bonus pools is fair to teams who are over it since they were unaware Maitan and others would be available.. hmm This should have a special rule where anyone is allowed in, but you'd ahve to pay the double tax if you're over (like how we signed Robert) Well, going over the pool is AGAINST the rules, so I don't think the MLB cares at all if some teams wish they had more warning. The MLB would just say "then don't break the rules next time."

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 20, 2017 -> 05:55 PM) Can't say I've truly grasped what the interests being defended are. The negotiating window thing makes sense to me -- a lot of players' fee agent contracts will be put on hold until teams know they missed on Otani. Not knowing where he's going until Feb 1 could have a drastic impact on free agency.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 20, 2017 -> 03:25 PM) Weird for me now being old enough to truly having watched and remembered most of these guys careers now eligible. You start to get some of the fights that happened previously a little better. Like first gut check, no way Rolen is a HOFer. Then I looked at numbers and it's like...hmmm Yeah, same reaction on Rolen.

Keep in mind that, given all we know about the LA amateur market and the fact that the Braves are losing him because of extra shadiness, there’s a good chance he didn’t see a whole lot of that 3 million in the first place.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Nov 16, 2017 -> 02:54 PM) Then journalists need to get their facts right. The article I read said he made one pitching appearance all year and got touched up for 4 runs in 1.1 innings. Yeah that’s extremely wrong. That was the line from his first start of the year, which didn’t happen until July. You may have been reading an old article.

QUOTE (GenericUserName @ Nov 15, 2017 -> 06:52 PM) Exactly. And for literally one game! How do we know we weren't there for every other game but our scout had food poisoning that night? We don't! Yeah, we can say its highly unlikely, but extrapolating from a single report about one game is ridiculous especially when most reporters have repeatedly said that every team will at least attempt to sign him. This isn’t true. Otani made seven starts, and there were a minimum ten teams represented at all of them. The broadcast would pan up to the scout seats practically every time he touched 98+

Lame.

Sherman now reporting that the MLB and NPB have a "tentative" agreement in place to extend the previous posting rules on more year, though nothing is final and the MLBPA has not yet been notified: http://nypost.com/2017/11/08/mlb-has-tenta...ne-hurdle-left/

I don't think they necessarily need to see him as much as I would think they'd want to send a message and begin to create a relationship with him, which I have no doubt the other teams were trying to do.

If I remember correctly the Sox were one of the teams not to have sent anyone to see him pitch this year. That can't bode well.

Looks like Yoshihisa Hirano is going to be an unrestricted free agent also. He's the closer on a bad team. I'll have to go back and watch some of his appearances if we're linked to him.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Nov 7, 2017 -> 05:18 PM) But how will one judge whether a team is "close" to competing if they only win 70 games, largely because the bullpen is awful? A bad bullpen also lends itself to overextending the starters in an effort to compensate. I'm not sure that's a good thing for the rebuild either. The same way you know the bullpen is garbage right now.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Nov 7, 2017 -> 04:01 PM) But that relatively young position player at an up the middle position = big $$$. IMO one of the cheapest and easiest ways for the White Sox to become competitivd again given their current state is to invest in pitching, more specifically the bullpen. I'd rather throw $100MM at four relievers like Reed, Minor, Shaw, and McGee than $150MM at a 33 year old Donaldson for example. Yeah I think this is the "agree to disagree" point. Pitching carries a substantially higher injury risk than hitting, especially over a period of several years. Stockpiling pitching and building just has a way higher chance to blow up in your face than doing the same with position players. It's the same reason why all of the recent successful rebuilders have consciously focused on drafting and developing positional talent and then spending big on pitching as the final piece. I agree that Donaldson wouldn't make sense for us, but he doesn't really fit the profile of what I mentioned in the first place. He's an aging corner guy that has tremendous present value but little future value. Your younger, up-the-middle guys are definitely more expensive, as you said, but there's a good reason -- they're rare and (relatively) dependable. If you lock one of them up (say Machado for a pipe dream), you can check that very important box off your list of needs for the foreseeable future, and now focus on the much easier task of filling lesser roles in whichever manner is appropriate. It's like going into a game of Yahtzee with the Yahtzee square already filled -- you still have a bunch of holes to fill to win, but your chances are much higher having already taken care of the hardest one to find. I think sometimes we forget how much of this whole exercise is about managing risk. Any player can bust at any time for several reasons, and you need to avoid that bust long enough to get a whole bunch of pieces in place at once. In order to maximize our chances of success, we need to minimize risk whenever possible. Building a foundation using the only the most stable elements allows us to maintain flexibility to spend on the more volatile elements closer to the time when we need them. You maximize your chances to win a game of hot potato by holding onto the ball for the least amount of time. If pitchers are the most likely asset to blow up, then our strategy for minimizing that bust potential is to minimize the amount of time we have to hold onto them hoping they don't blow up.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Nov 7, 2017 -> 03:20 PM) Don't we already know the bullpen is the most glaring weakness on this roster? I don't think Birmingham or Charlotte are exactly overflowing with power bullpen arms either. I don't see how this weakness will be addressed internally. I guess my bigger issue is that I view rebuilding as a gradual process of which includes signing free agents over an extended period of time rather than waiting for that "exact" window of contention. Yes, we know it's a glaring weakness, but we also know that the roster very likely doesn't have enough to compete even if that weakness disappeared. I agree that adding players shouldn't all happen at once, but you have to look at each player/player type individually. Relievers have notoriously short windows of effectiveness and are the easiest commodity to purchase at any given time, so that's not the type of free agent you want to buy gradually. A relatively young position player at an up-the-middle position, or perhaps a position that is weak organizationally? That's a different story.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 7, 2017 -> 01:33 PM) I hope your post is true. What about my post do you HOPE is true? I'm not talking about what the Sox are going to do, I'm talking about your claim that posters want to "save money for JR." It is not a matter of hope -- it IS true that no one thinks that. Why do you keep saying it? The reason people come down so hard on you sometimes, greg, isn't because you have unpopular opinions -- it because it doesn't seem like you read the posts you respond to. You're constantly putting words in people's mouths, and when they respond to correct you, you still go on pretending they didn't.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Nov 7, 2017 -> 01:38 PM) Agree to disagree. I don't view next year as a waste for Reed on the Sox. Would be nice to have a steady bullpen arm at the back end to close games for a young team full of unknowns in the pen. If one of those unknowns emerges as a potential closer in the next couple years you can always slide Reed back to his setup role. 4 years/$36MM is not a large commitment by today's standards (assuming that's his price tag). Consider the White Sox traded 4 relievers just last season alone (Swarzak, Jennings, Robertson, Kahnle), there is plenty of room to sign a couple this offseason and a couple next. I don't think signing Reed this offseason precludes them from acquiring a couple more next winter. It never seems like it, but those little things add up. We've seen this time run up against its spending walls several times. AN extra dead $8mm somewhere can make a big difference. I'm not saying Reed would necessarily be that guy, but if you start making moves LIKE these, you're going to run into one or two. It's just what happens to relievers, in general. And for what? A pretty generic above average reliever. Again, you can get that guy any year -- why not wait until you know that's how you want your money spent?

Bullpen arms of Addison Reed's quality are available every winter. No reason to buy now and burn the best year or two hoping they asset doesn't depreciate.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 7, 2017 -> 01:37 AM) Only great post in this thread IMO. Sox fans on this board overwhelmingly want the owners to spend no money, get rid of any player making a buck in pursuit of the rebuild. I can't wait to see who fans on this board someday deem worthy of a fat contract. Most of you soxtalk fans go to games. I can't believe your patience and willingness to give JR and the partners so much of your money for nothing in return (since 05). The Sox front office loves this board if they read it. You know my desires: Spend, spend spend just as fans spend 15 for a burger and 11 for a brewski. How do you STILL not get this? It's a matter of TIMING. TIMING, greg. Not being cheap. Spending money at the RIGHT TIME. No one gives a flying f*** about how rich Jerry Reinsdorf is. No one ever has. No one ever will.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 6, 2017 -> 03:48 PM) There were a LOT of Jeter comparisons, not only around here but even nationally. I remember one of Gordon's first series was against NY, and they even interviewed Jeter about Beckham. QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 6, 2017 -> 03:49 PM) Sigh. He was so awesome that first july / august he came up. Seemed like everything was to the gap. Those were such innocent times, weren't they? T_T

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 6, 2017 -> 02:42 PM) No. Oh, man, tell me I'm not the only one that remembers that post. I think it was in the thread where SI or ESPN or someone posted their all-next-decade team in 2009. We were all projecting what we thought peak Beckham was going to look like, and someone posted in non-green font that he/she thought "like Jeter but better."

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 11:15 AM) Quoting this because it is now relevant. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/nego...ree-agency.html Yeah, this is a major new development. Was talking to some people over at NPB reddit a bit about it this past weekend. Potentially changes everything, because I personally don't think Manfred has made any indication that he cares at all whether or not Otani gets here, so I don't see the MLB as heavily inclined to cave.

It's just not yet time to trade prospects for one-year veterans.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Nov 5, 2017 -> 06:29 PM) He's probably a $15 million / year guy now and is price tag will likely go up to about $22 million / year if we wait until the next offseason to sign him. Why bet on him to fail? I've seen enough to be convinced he's a future HOFer and we need to lock him up now for the next 6-8 seasons. Remember when Gordon Beckham was "Jeter but better"?

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Nov 3, 2017 -> 11:02 AM) Didn't the Cardinals kick the tires on Avi in July? They do have interest. Carson Kelly is currently blocked by Molina, who is signed thru 2020. It doesn't seem to be that big of a stretch to see them deal him for slugging outfielder. I'm not saying they don't want Avi, I'm just saying they aren't giving us Carson Kelly for him. My opinion is based on things I've read and what my Cardinals-fan friend tells me.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Nov 2, 2017 -> 06:07 PM) Free Agency - Sign RHSP/DH Shohei Otani to minor league contract - Sign LHRP Mike Minor 3 years $24MM - Sign RHRP Steve Cishek 2 years $14MM - Sign RHRP Tommy Hunter 2 years $10MM - Sign RF Michael Brantley 2 years $16MM Trade - Trade RF Avisail Garcia to Cardinals for C Carson Kelly Projected 2018 Opening Day Depth Chart C: Carson Kelly/Omar Narvaez 1B: Jose Abreu/Nick Delmonico/Matt Davidson 2B: Yoan Moncada/Yolmer Sanchez SS: Tim Anderson/Yolmer Sanchez 3B: Yolmer Sanchez/Matt Davidson LF: Nick Delmonico/Ryan Cordell CF: Leury Garcia/Adam Engel/Charlie Tilson RF: Michael Brantley/Ryan Cordell DH: Shohei Otani/Jose Abreu/Nick Delmonico SP1: Shohei Otani SP2: Lucas Giolito SP3: Reynaldo Lopez SP4: James Shields SP5: Carson Fulmer CL: Mike Minor SU: Steve Cishek SU: Tommy Hunter MR: Juan Minaya MR: Gregory Infante MR: Zach Putnam MR: Jace Fry How unrealistic is this? I don't think the Cardinals will part with Kelly for damn near anything. They love him, have put a lot of work into him, and believe they need him to replace Molina.