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It's a bad, bad contract because ALL the risk is on the team. And he's injury prone, has "old player" skills, and his one primary strength (power) is currently more abundant in the league than ever before. I would not trade any prospects for him at all.

I've got a lot of concerns about Giolito. I understand why the broadcasters are trying to sell that 2.38 ERA, but I'm finding it very hard to buy, as it comes next to a 4.94 FIP, .189 BABIP, and a staggering 92% LOB rate. The only positives I can see are the 2.38 BB/9 rate and the fact that his homerun rate looks about where it should be, or maybe a touch high even, which at least suggests he wasn't getting lucky there. That said, I had the opportunity to watch him live and up close when was in Lehigh shortly before his call-up, and from that look and what I saw on TV, I remain mystified that his stuff isn't leading to better results. The curveball, especially, is stunning up close -- but I guess that we've always known the problem is with the fastball, despite its velocity. He's an enigma; he scares me.

QUOTE (credezcrew24 @ Oct 3, 2017 -> 01:23 AM) The Sox got Puckett + for a veteran rental scrap heap starter in Melky. The Sox got Cordell for a veteran rental in Swarzak. The Sox got Gillespie for a LOOGY. Based on those 3 returns I'd say without reservation that my view isn't spoiled from the Sale/Eaton/Q deals. It simply wasn't a good return relative to any other deal Hahn made. If Melky gets Puckett + then Frazier alone should equal Clarkin. I don't have any doubt the Sox would have benefited from holding on to Kahnle and letting him close. Also Davidson isn't "expensive" he's a market value closer. I know it's weird to think about, but we have to remember that "market value" means "no surplus value." So what a team is willing to pay for a "market value" asset is literally a matter of how much they are willing to OVERPAY for the asset given their current situation in the standings. Getting anything significant for a "market value" asset is a good deal, and largely depends more on the context around the teams involved that it does on one person's "skills" as a negotiator.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 26, 2017 -> 06:52 AM) No fun in asterixis. Just an FYI for anyone who wants to know: the plural of "asterix" is "astrices."

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 25, 2017 -> 01:29 PM) I read where the Cuban league is A ball or maybe AA. Plus he was adjusting his entire life in a new country without his family. He was only the 3rd player ever. Others have come from other countries, and he's the first to do that. It is a big accomplishment. If its such a technicality how come no other foreign player has done it? Call it what you want -- the number of foreign players that came to America in their primes is a FRACTION of the pool of players being referred too in this stat. I'm NOT saying Jose Abreu isn't good or hasn't accomplished anything; that his trial and burdens aren't heavy -- but THIS stat is basically made-up in an attempt to pander, and I hate when people do that. It's manipulating numbers to try to elicit a reaction. It's almost clickbait. It's just not necessary. There are plenty of reasons to appreciate Jose Abreu without having to throw out "HISTORIC" crap that's misleading. I'm not dissing Abreu, I'm complaining about bad journalism.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Sep 25, 2017 -> 09:57 AM) If you get caught 20 times and you steal 200, are you still hurting the team? Um, no? But what's your point?

QUOTE (jamesdiego @ Sep 24, 2017 -> 09:10 PM) Holy s***, that made my day. Very beautiful moment for Iguchi, they obviously love him there. Awesome chanting and singing. Love that guy and his Samurai ways. Love it every time that play gets linked

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Sep 25, 2017 -> 07:05 AM) Wasn't Ichiro about 27 when he entered the league? Should we disregard his accomplishments too? Of course not, but we shouldn't pretend that he was a "rookie." I love Jose and what he's done, but trying to drum up "wows" by saying he's ONLY THE THIRD PLAYER EVER in a specific group top do something, when he's only AMONG that group (rookies) because of a technicality, is pretty lame.

Everyone wore his number on his last game, lol. And he hit a homer: http://tv.pacificleague.jp/vod/pc/topics/homerun/23559

I'm highly enamored with the HS class this year.

The entire HS class looks insane next year. Top 5 picks are going to get absolute studs.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 08:41 PM) No, if we just go by who you mentioned that's 8 position player ,a good bullpen and 1 starting pitcher. Since you need 5 or at least 4 good starting pitchers . I would have to conclude that you are only giving me the good and leaving out the bad. Rebuild

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 05:05 PM) I was talking about in ancient times like in the Flood and Messersmith examples when the money damn was busted wide open. Right, but this is an example of the owners having JUST agreed to a new CBA that specifically restricts the earnings of the specific type of player that we're talking about here. It's so fresh and so clear, and this example is so under a microscope, it would be insane to expect them to allow it be circumvented. Stranger things have happened, but this one would be a hail mary.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 08:22 PM) I don't think every team is equal. The money might be the same, but people in Chicago don't watch the White Sox, it is hard to imagine this kid in Japan who was 11 the last time the Sox were an international story on the field has his eyes on the White Sox. . I would think this kid has a couple of favorite teams. It is hard seeing the White Sox or the Brewers or Pirates, or many other teams, on top of that list, so all things being equal, they more than likely have no shot. Being able to offer him more money would be that shot. Right -- by all accounts, the only thing the Sox could POTENTIALLY offer is the right playing time situation, but the likelihood that at least one other, more desirable team won't also do it is extremely small.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 07:10 PM) Cespedes did. QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 07:19 PM) That's what I said in one of my many posts 3yrs and an opt out. Not sure if the Cespedes comparison applies, since he was 25 at the time and under a different CBA. Unless you know more I can listen. I also used Cespedes as an example of how surprising things can happen but I didn't dare try to say their situations were the same . Cespedes signed his contract before the most recent CBA -- things are radically different now. All players under 25 that don't go through the draft are now subject to International Signing Bonus limitations AND those limitations are now hard caps instead of harsh penalties. Manfred has expressly said that anything that they consider to be "circumventing the spending limit" will be grounds for voiding the contract.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 07:41 PM) Then he is insane to come over. He can wait 2 years and get 9 figures. Right, everyone's been saying that since the moment the new CBA info was released, but he insists he's coming anyway so it's a moot point.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 07:47 PM) I have a distinct feeling that you would have argued for MLB in the Curt Flood and Andy Messersmith situations. MLB hasn't fared well when called to task about restricting earnings. I just want you to tell me you think that if Otani has a successful 1st year and gets an extension that MLB opposes that they will 100% void the deal and 100 % win a court case should one arise. I am perfectly willing to admit it's possible MLB wins because I am not one of the top labor law experts in the country but think I have more than held my own in these discussions with you. MLB has fared EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY well in restricting earnings of players that are NOT in the Player's Union at the time of signing.

QUOTE (ron883 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 04:22 PM) Rick Hahn 's nickname is college wasn't Slick Rick for nothing. I expect him to pull out all the tricks in the book, legal or not, to ink Otani. I won't rule out a handshake deal. I mean I hope you're right, but unless it's unmarked bill in a Swiss bank account, the league is going to catch it. This guy is under a microscope and every other team is incentivized to blow the whistle if they're also trying to get him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 04:07 PM) This is the key here and the point I have been trying to make the whole time. But a deal like you described of 3/40 to 3/60 comes no where close to that. As to the last sentence, this is NOT legally unprecedented at all. I have given you multiple examples of this being done, both by MLB, and by the NBA which does not own an anti-trust exemption to fall back on. If you negotiate a contract in direct violation of the collective bargaining agreement the contract can and will be voided. It has been done by MLB and by the NBA. This is correct, and the league has gone on record saying they are aware that this is a situation they'll need to keep an eye on. Any sort of handshake agreement that would provider a competitive advantage in terms of a team's ability to give him more money should be considered impossible at this point.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 01:06 PM) The odds are long but not in the miracle category. The Sox have some advantages especially if they wanted to extend him after his 1st year. (See my post above). Tadahito Iguchi was actually the 1st full time Japanese position player to win a World Series and last I heard he was still playing and if the Sox signed Otani it would actually have to be for less than the Sox signed Iguchi back in 2005. Iguchi was at Sox Fest just a few years ago if I remember correctly and was still playing in Japan at that time. He has probably met Otani. The Sox could ask Iguchi to be their Otani ambassador . The hierarchy of the Sox front office is almost the same as it was when Iguchi signed . Iguchi is indeed still playing for Chiba, but he announced that he's retiring after this season a couple months ago.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 01:06 PM) The White Sox are one of the most out of the box teams when it comes to pitchers. I wonder if they might be more open to it than most, especially if it was a dealbreaker for other teams. Well the White Sox would just DH him. He's already gone to exclusively DH in the NPB this year, so it's fairly safe to assume he'd be okay with that. I was just disagreeing with Cameron's assessment that an NL team makes the most sense. I'd be absolutely shocked if he actually plays the field between starts.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 12:35 PM) Actually hope Hahn continues to stay away Not big on this kid Based on what? I watched him pitch last night again -- the stuff is monstrous. EDIT: Last night he touched 163kph, which is over 101mph.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 12:04 PM) In Dave Cameron's chat today he thinks NL teams have the advantage because AL teams would be too wary of promising him too many at bats at DH in case he flops as a hitter and they're stuck with a black hole in the lineup, whereas NL teams can let him pinch hit on his off days where the bar he needs to clear for hitting will be much lower. But even if he does suck as a hitter will the AL team be obligated to keep trotting him out there at DH? And if that's the case couldn't an AL rebuilding club just take that risk and guarantee him plenty of AB? If he flops at the plate initially it's no big deal to them. I simply cannot fathom a team being okay with him making throws in the field between starts.

Eh, FanGraphs has us projected to finish 64-98, which sounds reasonable. You'd have to add 20 wins to that to get us over .500. Even assuming Sale would have had the same season and assuming we wouldn't have tried to replace Avi, I can't get us 20 wins with him, Quintana, and another half season of our bullpen and Todd Frazier. It looks like we'd probably have another 75 win season, which is like the worst possible outcome for a team not sure where to go.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 11, 2017 -> 08:59 AM) I've actually made posts critical of the board for giving Jose TOO much praise during his struggles. I guess me and greg have been posting on two different soxtalk.com message boards. greg is basically yelling at a cloud, arguing against a stance no one has taken.