Eminor3rd

QUOTE (jamesdiego @ Sep 24, 2017 -> 09:10 PM) Holy s***, that made my day. Very beautiful moment for Iguchi, they obviously love him there. Awesome chanting and singing. Love that guy and his Samurai ways. Love it every time that play gets linked

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Sep 25, 2017 -> 07:05 AM) Wasn't Ichiro about 27 when he entered the league? Should we disregard his accomplishments too? Of course not, but we shouldn't pretend that he was a "rookie." I love Jose and what he's done, but trying to drum up "wows" by saying he's ONLY THE THIRD PLAYER EVER in a specific group top do something, when he's only AMONG that group (rookies) because of a technicality, is pretty lame.

Everyone wore his number on his last game, lol. And he hit a homer: http://tv.pacificleague.jp/vod/pc/topics/homerun/23559

I'm highly enamored with the HS class this year.

The entire HS class looks insane next year. Top 5 picks are going to get absolute studs.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 08:41 PM) No, if we just go by who you mentioned that's 8 position player ,a good bullpen and 1 starting pitcher. Since you need 5 or at least 4 good starting pitchers . I would have to conclude that you are only giving me the good and leaving out the bad. Rebuild

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 05:05 PM) I was talking about in ancient times like in the Flood and Messersmith examples when the money damn was busted wide open. Right, but this is an example of the owners having JUST agreed to a new CBA that specifically restricts the earnings of the specific type of player that we're talking about here. It's so fresh and so clear, and this example is so under a microscope, it would be insane to expect them to allow it be circumvented. Stranger things have happened, but this one would be a hail mary.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 08:22 PM) I don't think every team is equal. The money might be the same, but people in Chicago don't watch the White Sox, it is hard to imagine this kid in Japan who was 11 the last time the Sox were an international story on the field has his eyes on the White Sox. . I would think this kid has a couple of favorite teams. It is hard seeing the White Sox or the Brewers or Pirates, or many other teams, on top of that list, so all things being equal, they more than likely have no shot. Being able to offer him more money would be that shot. Right -- by all accounts, the only thing the Sox could POTENTIALLY offer is the right playing time situation, but the likelihood that at least one other, more desirable team won't also do it is extremely small.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 07:10 PM) Cespedes did. QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 07:19 PM) That's what I said in one of my many posts 3yrs and an opt out. Not sure if the Cespedes comparison applies, since he was 25 at the time and under a different CBA. Unless you know more I can listen. I also used Cespedes as an example of how surprising things can happen but I didn't dare try to say their situations were the same . Cespedes signed his contract before the most recent CBA -- things are radically different now. All players under 25 that don't go through the draft are now subject to International Signing Bonus limitations AND those limitations are now hard caps instead of harsh penalties. Manfred has expressly said that anything that they consider to be "circumventing the spending limit" will be grounds for voiding the contract.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 07:41 PM) Then he is insane to come over. He can wait 2 years and get 9 figures. Right, everyone's been saying that since the moment the new CBA info was released, but he insists he's coming anyway so it's a moot point.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 07:47 PM) I have a distinct feeling that you would have argued for MLB in the Curt Flood and Andy Messersmith situations. MLB hasn't fared well when called to task about restricting earnings. I just want you to tell me you think that if Otani has a successful 1st year and gets an extension that MLB opposes that they will 100% void the deal and 100 % win a court case should one arise. I am perfectly willing to admit it's possible MLB wins because I am not one of the top labor law experts in the country but think I have more than held my own in these discussions with you. MLB has fared EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY well in restricting earnings of players that are NOT in the Player's Union at the time of signing.

QUOTE (ron883 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 04:22 PM) Rick Hahn 's nickname is college wasn't Slick Rick for nothing. I expect him to pull out all the tricks in the book, legal or not, to ink Otani. I won't rule out a handshake deal. I mean I hope you're right, but unless it's unmarked bill in a Swiss bank account, the league is going to catch it. This guy is under a microscope and every other team is incentivized to blow the whistle if they're also trying to get him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 04:07 PM) This is the key here and the point I have been trying to make the whole time. But a deal like you described of 3/40 to 3/60 comes no where close to that. As to the last sentence, this is NOT legally unprecedented at all. I have given you multiple examples of this being done, both by MLB, and by the NBA which does not own an anti-trust exemption to fall back on. If you negotiate a contract in direct violation of the collective bargaining agreement the contract can and will be voided. It has been done by MLB and by the NBA. This is correct, and the league has gone on record saying they are aware that this is a situation they'll need to keep an eye on. Any sort of handshake agreement that would provider a competitive advantage in terms of a team's ability to give him more money should be considered impossible at this point.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 01:06 PM) The odds are long but not in the miracle category. The Sox have some advantages especially if they wanted to extend him after his 1st year. (See my post above). Tadahito Iguchi was actually the 1st full time Japanese position player to win a World Series and last I heard he was still playing and if the Sox signed Otani it would actually have to be for less than the Sox signed Iguchi back in 2005. Iguchi was at Sox Fest just a few years ago if I remember correctly and was still playing in Japan at that time. He has probably met Otani. The Sox could ask Iguchi to be their Otani ambassador . The hierarchy of the Sox front office is almost the same as it was when Iguchi signed . Iguchi is indeed still playing for Chiba, but he announced that he's retiring after this season a couple months ago.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 01:06 PM) The White Sox are one of the most out of the box teams when it comes to pitchers. I wonder if they might be more open to it than most, especially if it was a dealbreaker for other teams. Well the White Sox would just DH him. He's already gone to exclusively DH in the NPB this year, so it's fairly safe to assume he'd be okay with that. I was just disagreeing with Cameron's assessment that an NL team makes the most sense. I'd be absolutely shocked if he actually plays the field between starts.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 12:35 PM) Actually hope Hahn continues to stay away Not big on this kid Based on what? I watched him pitch last night again -- the stuff is monstrous. EDIT: Last night he touched 163kph, which is over 101mph.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 12:04 PM) In Dave Cameron's chat today he thinks NL teams have the advantage because AL teams would be too wary of promising him too many at bats at DH in case he flops as a hitter and they're stuck with a black hole in the lineup, whereas NL teams can let him pinch hit on his off days where the bar he needs to clear for hitting will be much lower. But even if he does suck as a hitter will the AL team be obligated to keep trotting him out there at DH? And if that's the case couldn't an AL rebuilding club just take that risk and guarantee him plenty of AB? If he flops at the plate initially it's no big deal to them. I simply cannot fathom a team being okay with him making throws in the field between starts.

Eh, FanGraphs has us projected to finish 64-98, which sounds reasonable. You'd have to add 20 wins to that to get us over .500. Even assuming Sale would have had the same season and assuming we wouldn't have tried to replace Avi, I can't get us 20 wins with him, Quintana, and another half season of our bullpen and Todd Frazier. It looks like we'd probably have another 75 win season, which is like the worst possible outcome for a team not sure where to go.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 11, 2017 -> 08:59 AM) I've actually made posts critical of the board for giving Jose TOO much praise during his struggles. I guess me and greg have been posting on two different soxtalk.com message boards. greg is basically yelling at a cloud, arguing against a stance no one has taken.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 3, 2017 -> 09:15 PM) Literally can't get him ? He can still sign for 300K can't he ? I know it sounds ridiculous but in the context of the highest amount he can be offered it's not a big difference. If he becomes a major leaguer right away wouldn't his minimal salary be added to the bonus pool money and he would be under control for the normal amount of time? A promise to let him attempt to be an everyday player and starting pitcher seems like something that other teams wouldn't promise. Also do we think part of the offers to him will promise to extend or renegotiate his contract or is that not kosher ? Right, $300k is what I meant by "penalty box money." It's possible that he literally doesn't care about money at ALL and would sign for the minimum, but unless (1) the Sox are the ONLY team that will let him hit, or (2) he's REALLY excited about being part of a rebuild, we don't have anything to offer him that another more popular and more competitive team couldn't top.

Or, you're like us, and clinch the wildcard on the last day of the season and suddenyl realize that you have 48 hours to prepare for playoff games that no one p[lanned to have. And then one gets rained out last night and everyone is confused because you aren't having a doubleheader like normal. Been a crazy couple days. Love these articles.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 5, 2017 -> 07:34 PM) I would love Engel to be able to hit, even a minimal amount.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 4, 2017 -> 10:08 PM) Almost all of the mega contracts turn out to be disasters. I mean Detroit got rid of Verlander's contract but still had to pay some of it to the Astros. It's why I laugh whenever they talk about guys hitting free agency how much money they are going to get. The media here hasn't estimated what Hosmer is going to get but with 22 homers, 77 RBI and a .317 average, he'll get a ton of money. Astronomical amount. But after two years in his 7 year deal the team will desperately want to get rid of him. That's how it works. My stance on here is well known. I never wanted a rebuild. I wanted to spend, spend spend and stay competitive. Why? Jerry doesn't care about me paying 30 bucks for parking or whatever it is. Jerry doesn't care about me paying 9 bucks for a hot dog. Jerry doesn't give a s*** about my money; I don't care about his pocketbook. Just.Spend.Baby! Greg. The first half of your post say that free agency is a fool's errand, and the second half says you want the Sox to be nuts in free agency. Can you please explain this?

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Sep 4, 2017 -> 02:47 PM) Some of you need to accept the current value of MLB players today. The Cubs signed Jason Heyward to a 8 year / $184 million dollar contract just 2 years ago (and he supposedly turned down 2 offers of over $200 million). His lifetime stats are a .262 BA / .412 SLG / .756 OPS. Avi has career stats of .273 BA / .410 SLG / .734 OPS. Avi is a younger player than Jason was at the time and is having a far better season than Heyward has ever had in his career. The numbers I quoted would still be a good deal for the organization. We would have been wiser to sign him long term earlier in the season for less money (as I advocated), but if we don't sign him this offseason, it will take even more a commitment to keep him on the southside for the bulk of his HOF career. And that contract is UNIVERSALLY considered a total disaster, despite the fact that Heyward is an above-average to elite defender by both scouting and advanced stats.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 4, 2017 -> 09:21 AM) You're right, fair enough. But how long are you going to dismiss the results? The dude has clearly sustained this through several different phases of the season. He hits the ball extremely hard and has the speed to beat out a lot of balls that don't get through the left side of the infield. Let me ask you this: Are there a lot of other guys who have the kind of exit velocity Avi has averaged this year combined with a much lower than average launch angle? And have good speed? Just curious. Honestly, I think it's another full year. There are just SO many guys who looked awesome for one year on a huge BABIP who fell apart immediately. If he has the same year next year as this one, I'm thinking "OK, maybe this guys is just different." But the problem is, by then, he's a pending FA. I guess if he does it and the rest of the team just f***ing shoves all year and looks like a near contender, then it's worth it to keep him and make one title shot with him. But it's just so unlikely for BOTH of those things to happen. Like, he definitely MIGHT be that guy. I'm not saying that he CAN'T be. But if you're running the team you have to look at the risk/reward. He also definitely PROBABLY isn't that guy, based on everything we can measure. And if you bet on him, and he is this unprecedented legit guy, then what you have is one relevant season of a 3-win OF. Which is nice! But when you factor the risk, it's a lot to bet on a good-not-great outcome. I think this conversation is entirely different if he has this success in his first or second year. And, should the offers for him not be very impressive, there is certainly a point where it still makes sense to roll the dice for that one decent competitive season. But given the risk profile and the service timeline, it definitely makes MOST sense to try to sell him at peak value. That doesn't mean give him away for nothing, but the most intelligent outcome would be to sell him now for some real value that can be realized 2-5 years down the line, if it can be achieved.