DBAHO

Considering Floyd is out of options, I still think there's a chance Danks could start 2008 in AAA. Of course a lot of that will depend on whether the Sox acquire Ervin Santana in a Paul Konerko deal.

And hopefully it's the spark that they need for tonight.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 07:58 AM) So I'm finally going skydiving over the summer. Anyone ever done it? I can't wait. I take it you're not afraid of heights there Rowand. I'm the opposite, but skydiving is something that I probably want to end up doing myself in the next couple of years. Something to try and get over that type of fear.

Norv's just a wonderful coach isn't he. As for Rivers, he looked pretty good last season under Marty / Cameron, but he has certainly regressed this season. Giants vs. Cowboys should be a good contest next week. Giants are 8-1 on the road this season, and that 1 loss was in the opening game of the season, against the Cowboys. The game rides on TO's dodgy ankle IMHO. Take him out, and I don't know if we can win.

Gio's the safest bet to have the most success if you were going to pick someone right now. However, he COULD end up being the worst player of the 3 dealt (which would be a terrible scenario for the Sox, but we'll have to wait around 5 years to find that out). And would I believe Harold Reynolds? No.

If we can't get Kendrick, how does a Willits + Figgins + Santana + Speier for Konerko and Richar sound? Willits moves to CF, Figgins to 2B, Santana back end of the rotation, with Speier joining the pen. Either Swisher or Fields could move to 1B, depending on what you wanted to do with Joe Crede.

People down here and in my office are majorly rooting for Obama now. I think they're going to end up pretty happy.

Just on your post there SSI71, on your point about projecting anything about our prospects, I agree that over the years our prospects certainly haven't delivered. But I think eventually, as you've said we're going to have to let some of these young guys come up from our system and play. We can't keep signing FA's, and then trade for other prospects or young guys from opposing teams more than 80% of the time. And we've had a couple e.g B-Mac etc. over the years, but we need more than that. I guess that's why I was just so hesitant to include DLS in any deal. Yes he's raw, and he's only 2 pitches, but this guy could have ended up being the best prospect we've ever had to come up and dominate (if everything pans out for him). But having a better system mainly comes with better drafting, and we obviously need to improve that.

The deal that was proposed on WSI; Sox sending Konerko, Crede and prospect rumor is Shelby Angels would send the Sox Figgins, Kendrick, Santana, Speier and Wilson I suppose Figgins would play CF for us. I like the Speier addition, him and Linebrink would actually be a pretty solid set-up duo, albeit they'll both be earning around 4.5M a season for the next 3 years. I would still like to find a way to acquire Reggie Willits though. Maybe offer them Danny Richar or something (not really a great need for Richar if we're going to trade for Kendrick and have him at 2B for the foreseeable future).

Some interesting stats on Swisher; The Marcels are a simple way of calculating a player forecast. Named after the monkey from Friends (so simple a monkey could do them), they simply consist of averaging a player's previous experience (with greatest weight on the most recent years) and regressing to the major league average depending on the number of years the player has been in the majors. This is done for each component (home runs, doubles, walks, etc.) A simple aging factor is applied, but no park factor. Marcels Batting; .257/.358/.482. OPS - .840 27 HR's, 73 BB's, 122 K's. Swisher had a RZR in CF of .878. Revised Zone Rating is the proportion of balls hit into a fielder's zone that he successfully converted into an out. For a comparisons sake, Aaron Rowand had a RZR of .861 in 2007. In 2005, Rowand had a RZR of .867. Brian Anderson in 2006 had a RZR of .905. Swisher's BA/RISP. 04 - .200 05 - .219 06 - .191 07 - .252 So he looks more suited to a top of the order hitter to me.

Obviously Figgins would probably be a prime target. Would people be interested in Willits instead though as part of a package (and getting more talent in return with the other players in the deal)? Swisher would move to 1B, and Willits goes to CF (not sure how he handles it defensively though). How does Willits + Adenhart + another prospect sound for example?

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 06:27 PM) On the other hand he is in A ball, only has two good pitches, and was 21 at A ball (which isn't necesarrily young). I love the guy to death but there are a great number of pitchers with superior upside in baseball. He was our best option (along with Gio) but by all means he doesn't rank in the top 10 in baseball, the Sox don't have anyone in that category and if they did it would be if Aaron Poreda proved all the doubters wrong and developed great secondary stuff and didn't have his arm fall off. Ok those are some good points. You have to remember it was his 1st full season in the minors though in regards to his age. I think he would have done very well in Birmingham at some point in 2008 if given the opportunity, considering it's a pitchers park and all, and that could have raised his value even more. Obviously a lot depends on if he can develop that changeup, but the Sox have a fairly good record of developing secondary stuff for their pitchers at the minor league level. Obviously he's a high risk prospect, but potentially down the line if everything pans out for him, I think he's an ace. I just find it a little funny how at the ASB everybody was slurping this guy after his performance at the Futures Game, and everyone saying we had a hell of a prospect on our hands, and now some people are saying he's overrated and not even a top 50 prospect in baseball. It just shows how much you can flip - flop on something here.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 04:52 PM) OK, now with a bit of research, prospects (pitching) that are better than DLS: Hughes, Chamberlain, Cueto, Bailey, Kershaw, Carrasco, Morales, Price, Porcello, Volstad, Bucholz, both Millers, McGee, Gio, Elbert...? I'd still rank DLS higher than Gio based on potential, although Gio is certainly more advanced. I dunno, I think he would sneak into the top 10, but it's only my opinion, and I might be in the minority here. But I think he's certainly a top 50 prospect as a minimum Rock Raines. He's a B+ prospect as a minimum, and could be rated as a A prospect or a 5 star spect IMHO.

Oh and does anyone want to do a Hinrich for Jameer Nelson trade?

Didn't Jack go to the same school you did Fathom (or am I mistaken there)?

Well they're certainly bullish on Danks and Floyd aren't they. And if Linebrink put up that type of ERA, I don't think there would be many happy White Sox fans about that signing. Unfortunately, I think something around there is a real possibility (although maybe not THAT bad).

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 04:24 PM) I love DLS, but without a 3rd pitch - which may or may not be developed - he's nothing more than a bullpen arm as far as I'm concerned. He'd be a filthy reliever, but a reliever nonetheless. He does have a changeup though. It's not a great one, but I assume the A's minor league brass will have him working on it like crazy in the next year or 2. A pitcher such as Santana who has a great FB and slider shows how good an effective changeup can be. I've lost count how many White Sox hitters have K'd against that change over the years. You just have to remember, we haven't had a pitching prospect who has had the same type of stuff as Fautino De Los Santos had over at least the past few years. All I'm hoping is that we can find another in the Latin America region this year, because god knows our farm system needs it.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 02:43 PM) Just off the top of my head without looking, Bailey, Cueto, Chamberlain, Hughes, Buccholz... I suppopse it depends if you consider guys like Chamberlain and Hughes prospects, even though it's most likely they'll be in the Yankee rotation at the start of 2008. Buckholz could be part of a 6 man rotation in Boston, while Bailey lost a little value in 2007. I'd be worried if I was him with Dusty Baker as my manager as well. Just look at Mark Prior (although there's the whole thing about mechanics etc.). Kershaw I will definitely give you Balta (although isn't he only also in A ball, or did he make it to AA in 2007)?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 03:23 PM) Is that sarcastic? No I'm being serious here. It was his 1st full season in the minors, and his K/9 ratios indicate he's a pretty dang good prospect. There's not many other prospects out there who have the FB / Slider combo that he has. I think you're seriously underrating him only because 1 - He doesn't have a good 3rd pitch yet (which can be developed) and; 2 - He only reached high A ball at the end of 2007.

Just a couple of quick points; 1 - He seems to be slurping the work of Duane Shaffer quite a bit. I'd look more at his record in the draft over the past 10 years or so, and you can't say we've really had many impact players there. It was time for a change, world series win or not. 2 - Rogers needed to look past the .230 averages of Richar and Quentin. Quentin has been injured constantly and when healthy has raked. Richar has a small sample size, and showed enough plate disicipline to suggest if he can raise his average to say .260/.270, he will be a valuable asset. 3 - I like Gio, but even I think he's overrating him there. #2 starter would be the absolute pinnacle for him. 4 - Right now, I'd be very surprised if Sweeney was able to show the same type of power Swisher has over the next 5 years or so.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 12:57 PM) The good thing is that if any of those players leave in free agency, we get picks. If our team isnt contending at the deadline, we can get spects. I like this direction alot. And there is no way in hell DLS is close to a top 10 prospect in baseball right now, no way in hell. In fact, many scouts project him in the bullpen in the future. Right this second, Gio is the main haul in this trade, by a long shot. Ok just for the sake of discussion, who are 10 better prospects in baseball right now than DLS? And what about 10 better pitching prospects also?

So biggest winners and losers in both parties from tonight's result?

Well great news that Hilary isn't winning. I'm impartial on either Edwards or Obama, so a pretty good result. I think you probably have to consider Obama the favorite right now. Will be interesting to see how the Clintons regroup after this. Quite the wake-up call.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 12:24 PM) Howie Kendrick and Adenhart. I still want to see how Richar does. I think he's got the potential to give you an OPS over .800 with good plate discipline. My thinking was, acquire Figgins for CF (and to play elsewhere), and use Swisher at 1B (and have him rotate at other OF spots where necessary). Kendrick could always play at 1B as well though.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 12:23 PM) How many people are going to keep b****ing about the farm system until you realize the absolutely solid core of young studs KW has collected. With a successful farm system, for a contender they usually have what, 3-5 players that are homegrown maximum, that are cheap, young, and hitting their peaks. We have our future middle of the order and possibly 2 arms in the rotation for basically the next SEVERAL years. The top levels of the farm system are so insignificant right now with that young core its ridiculous. KW turned Gio into thome and Swisher, thats ridiculous. Swisher was poised to be Oakland's Konerko, at a younger age, with more athleticism, at a time where salaries are out of control. KW got him for basically an OF prospect that isnt a top ten for any team but us, an A ball pitcher with potential, and a player that could be good, but also has been traded 3 times for impact players already, and was traded with Floyd for freaking 3-game Freddy garcia. You're right in saying our young core has improved. We've basically replaced Podsednik, Iguchi, Erstad, Garcia and McCarthy from the start of 2006 with Quentin, Richar, Swisher, Floyd and Danks. So I give KW some credit at improving that part of our team. However I disagree with you when you say the top levels of our farm system will be insignificant because of that young core. We still have a lot of old aging guys in our team, Contreras, Dye, Thome etc. that will need replacing in a few seasons. The best option to do that should always be through the farm system, if the player is good enough. 6 years of control, with 3 seasons at around 350K prove that, and it shows why those type of guys are so valuable in today's market. You can always try to replace those guys in free agency, but it's costing you more money, and you're probably going to give up more draft picks in the process. And we don't want to turn into the San Francisco Giants for example. Right now, I think a huge key for this franchise in the next 5 years is how KW and his team re-stock the farm system. They need to hit in this upcoming draft, and make some shrewd signings in the Latin American region. Because if they don't, in 4-5 years or so, we're not going to have any possible replacement in - house, and that is going to cost us dearly, since we'll have to overpay to get our guys in FA. I see DLS as more than a A ball player with potential also. He's a possible top 10 prospect in baseball right now. If he does well in AA next season (which he should reach), it only enhances his value.