DBAHO

QUOTE(watchtower41 @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 10:03 AM) great thread... Orton gets no credit becuase of the media and fans that think we have Joe MOntana coming off the bench. Look at this team last year with Krenzel and Quinn, same defense, but did they win any games?? The Bears stand today as division winers in largepart to the way Orton handled the offense and did not hand over games to the opposing team. Sexy Rexy on the other hand, will choke in out firsty playoff game. In 6 quarters he already has 3 pics and was a stellar 11-23 against one of the worst defense's in the league. Hope they gets his wing in Canton done soon. to Grossman, the most overrated Chicagoan since Kerry Wood Oh really? The Bears in 2005 have given up 11.2 points a game, 274.2 Yds/G and have 24 INT's and have forced 18 fumbles. In 2004, the Bears gave up 20.7 points a game, 336.9 Yds/G and only had 17 INT's and onlt forced 14 fumbles. Their defense is better in EVERY category this season. That's why it's become elite, and why that argument you've said is flawed. The way Orton handled the offense? Ok then. Rex throws a better deep ball and more receivers such as Justin Gage and Bernard Berrian have become involved in the offense, which can only open things up for the running game. But guys, let's try to keep things civil in here, while we've got a fairly good discussion going.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 27, 2005 -> 06:02 PM) Anderson is bar none the better defensive player and he's also by far a better offensive player than Borchard. Your assesment couldn't be more wrong. Anderson will definately suffer some growing pains offensively, but as of now he's the more polished hitter of the two and its why he's going to be our starting center fielder. I can definitley understand that right now for 2006 Brian Anderson should outperform Chris Young. He's better defensively, and will probably hit a little better than Young would if they were both in the majors. I've got no beef with that. What annoyed me though, was that almost every minor league guru here on Soxtalk has stated that Chris Young has the potential to be a better player then Brian Anderson. I look at Anderson and see a Jacque Jones type of career for him, not bad for a CF at all. But Young has the chance to be a better than Mike Cameron type, and I think if given a choice most of those minor league experts would have preferred to keep Young. Of course if we did keep Young and traded Anderson, then for CF you'd hav Jerry Owens, or you'd have to find a solution on the FA market (e.g Kenny Lofton, Jeff DaVanon) or in the trade market.

QUOTE(DePloderer @ Dec 27, 2005 -> 11:43 PM) ahem Blame Wite. But Happy Birthday Deplods!!!!!

Happy Birthday A.J, and get wasted!!!!!! (which I know you will).

QUOTE(jenksd @ Dec 27, 2005 -> 09:49 PM) Go back in time and magically swap picks with Orlando and draft Dwight Howard. Ah yes, you gotta love Dwight.

Right now I find it hard to see where Morrison would fit with the Bulls. You've already got 4 guys in Deng, Gordon, Nocioni and Hinrich who play either SG or SF where Morrison would play. Gotta take Aldrige if he's available. The Bulls may not have a top 3 pick again for a long time and if they can get a quality young big, they should do it, looking at their current needs. You get Mohammed as well, suddenly you have a very nice mix of bigs in Aldrige, Mohammed, Chandler, Sweetney and Songalia.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Dec 27, 2005 -> 04:18 PM) I know I've asked this before, but is the pick we get from the Knicks top 3 protected? No it isn't, which shows why Thomas is a PATHETIC GM.

So much for the Red Sox having any chance to upgrade their rotation through the FA market now. Millwood's a hell of a risk though. He's going from a good pitcher's park in 2005 from Jacobs, to one of the best hitting parks in baseball in Arlington. Still, Jon Daniels has upgraded that rotation, and the AL West should definitely be an interesting 3 team race to watch next season.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 26, 2005 -> 11:50 PM) Some of you guys act like you've never seen a rookie qb play before. Grossman is much better right now that's not even a question but every single rookie qb struggles with a few exceptions. DBAHO, I'm not sure if all those stats you threw out there are legit because I know Brady didn't play as a rookie(if he did it was a few games). How many rookies started 14 games out of those guys you threw out there? Also, why not throw out some of the qb ratings of the all time greats such as Elway, Montana, Fouts. Outside a few games, Orton didn't turn the ball over and that's what he was asked to do. Obviously the Bears are a much better team with Rex in there now but it's pretty ridiculous for people to say Orton sucks after his rookie campaign where he won 10 games. This is coming from a non-Bears fan, who couldn't care less about either QB. On Brady, yeah he only threw 3 passes in his 1st "official" season in the NFL, but then of course the year after he was thrown in when Bledsoe got injured and led them to the superbowl. Point taken on Elway etc. but c'mon you have to admit those guys had more way more potential and talent at the time then Kyle Orton. Kind of like Alex Smith really (he hasn't a good year but he hasn't been put into a situation to succeed at all). Orton didn't win those "9" games. The defense and running game of the Bears did. My argument all along was that for the Bears to have a shot at getting thru the NFC and to the Superbowl, they had to make a QB change to Rex. And they did that, and now you can see the results. The defense of the Bears wasn't to their usual level today, but Rex made plays on those deep balls, and you can see how much of a difference it made. We're just not putting Orton up on a pedestal, and saying he's the greatest rookie QB of all time. Right now, if you were asked who the future QB of the Bears was, you'd have to say Rex Grossman, wouldn't you if he could stay injury free?

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Dec 25, 2005 -> 03:08 AM) And Natalie Portman is hot. hair or no hair. I'll second that notion (she almost beat Elisha Cuthbert for my member title you know), even though it was a bit of a shock to the system to see her bald in the 1st place.

Well so far this year I've gotten an authentic White Sox Jersey, an authentic White Sox Jacket, and about a week ago I got sent an official White Sox World Series Champs T-Shirt from a nice old guy my Dad worked with in Glendale who used to live in Chicago, and he's sent a hat on the way as well, which was extremely nice of him.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 24, 2005 -> 07:00 PM) While still playing in America, Tony Batista hit atleast 25 homers in a season from 99-04. That's not bad at all, especially for how cheaply Minnesota got him. He's not outstanding offensively, but if he hits .270, that's a huge bat down in the lower part of the order. He hits .240, and he's still hitting 25-30 homers for you. You've got to remember with Batista wite, even if he can hit those 25 homers, it will hardly matter because he'll be making so many damn outs for that team. In 2004, he hit 32 homers. Sounds good doesn't it? But his OBP was a ghastly .272. So in 650 plate appearances, he made 494 outs. That's brutal. Added to the fact that Batista only had an OBP of .293 in Japan, if the Twins play him everyday at 3B, it should be a win for us. I don't care how bad they say Michael Cuddyer was. He's got the scope to improve still. And he had splits of .263/.330/.422 in 2005. Replacing him with a guy who had splits of .241/.272/.455 sounds like you're trying to replace a Bill Mueller type with a 2003 version of Joe Crede. Cuddyer's OPS with 24 points higher, I'd expect the gap to widen if they actually give Mike playing time, which probably won't be the case now since he's expected to battle Jason Kubel for playing time in RF.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Dec 25, 2005 -> 03:55 PM) the red sox lose a very easily replaced .806 ops at the leadoff spot, and pretty much nothing else offensively as of right now. they have improved the bullpen immensely, and the rotation will be exceptional. its far to early to guarantee anything, but the red sox will be a top five team in the american league next season. Since when did OPS become an important stat for a leadoff hitter? By that reasoning, Scott Podsednik wasn't very good at all in 2005 (and Pods fans, please don't get me started on a Pods is great argument, even though I'm not his biggest backer). The rotation will be exceptional? Better than the White Sox's rotation? You're relying on Josh Beckett to stay injury free, Tim Wakefield to pitch the same without his preferred catcher Doug Mirrabelli there, Matt Clement to prove his 2nd half was an anomaly, Curt Schilling to get back to his 2004 form and Bronson Arroyo to keep developing (I'm assuming Wells will be traded). A LOT of if's there. I think that what people are arguing is that the downgrade in offense for the Red Sox (you've lost Damon, Renteria, Mueller) and could lose Manny on top of that, will probably be greater than the supposed improvement the Red Sox have made to their pitching.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 25, 2005 -> 10:18 AM) Stoneman is incompetent. He'd make a good assitant GM, or even the head of a scouting team, the Angels have been great with their farm system in the past few seasons to the point where it's loaded today. That said, he just doesn't have the balls to make a major trade, giving up his young talent. He's basically the anti KW. And I know that really annoys you about him Jason.

Yes I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas, spent time with their families, and just enjoyed themselves.

So what type of wine was it?

QUOTE(knightni @ Dec 26, 2005 -> 06:30 PM) Orton gonna start vs Minny? I wouldn't think so. Give Rex extra time to get comfortable in the offense. Although I know 1 person who'll be pulling for him (and is already predicting a 250 YD, 3 TD performance against Minny for one Kyle Orton).

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Dec 26, 2005 -> 03:58 PM) No. C'mon Nuke, I expected more than that from you.

When did Kyle Boller actually turn into a serviceable NFL Quarterback?

QUOTE(TheHawkaroo @ Dec 26, 2005 -> 08:18 AM) My guess would be they play Glaus at DH, Overbay at 1st, and Koskie at 3rd. Hinske could come off the bench as he's not that good anyways, but that leaves Hillebrand who is a pretty good hitter and who had a good year in '05. Maybe they trade him for some relief pitching or prospects. The Blue Jays are going wild and just trying to get anybody they can. It should be interesting to see how it turns out, I think they will be regretting this in a few years. Glaus has got a no trade clause though. He might not move to Toronto unless they guarantee him that he'll play at third base. And yeah Hillenbrand's pretty much a shoo - in to be traded at this point, unless some team like the Twinkies bites on Corey Koskie or Eric Hinske.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Dec 26, 2005 -> 02:38 AM) Haha, I hope not. The Pacers aren't doing so bad since Artest has been on the inactive list. I hope we can get a nice plug-in, and the Pacers will be fine. How bout Grant Hill?

QUOTE(Felix @ Dec 26, 2005 -> 10:09 AM) Defense is playing pretty badly. See what happens when you can't rely on your defense all the time? With Grossman in, the Bears don't have to worry so much about that now do they?

Oh and would you look at that, Grossman makes a 54 yard completion to Berrian. When's the last time Kyle Orton did one of those?

BWAHAHAHAHA, after all of this time you are still drunk on the Orton Love. Let's break this down. One of the best rookie seasons of all time? A 59.9 QB rating constitutes one of the best rookie seasons of all time now does it? Grossman could throw 5 INT's today? Umm yeah ok, they're playing the Green Bay Packers, not the Chicago Bears on defense. But still Orton would probably throw for less than 100 yards (which he did twice in the last 4 weeks) and complete 50% or less of his passes (which he did 4 times in the last 4 games). Alex Smith plays on the San Francisco 49ers. Their offensive line is TERRIBLE and hardly gives him a chance to make a play. Could you imagine Orton dancing around in the pocket for them? And let's look back on some QB's who ALL had better rookie season then Orton; Tom Brady - 86.5 QB rating, 2843 yards. David Carr - 62.8 QB rating, 2592 yards. Drew Bledsoe - 65.0 QB rating, 2494 yards. Kerry Collins - 62.0 QB rating, 2717 yards. Byron Leftwich - 73.0 QB rating, 2819 yards. Peyton Manning - 71.2 QB rating, 3739 yards. Jake Plummer - 73.1 QB rating, 2203 yards. Ben Roethlisberger - 98.1 QB rating, 2621 yards. But because Orton won 9 games for the Bears he's great right?

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 26, 2005 -> 05:41 AM) I had him on my bench in the championship game. Parcells has been such a boob. He essentially gave up on the running game the past couple weeks and thats why they had struggled. Run the ball with your two good backs and they are just fine. But Parcells isn't what he once was. Well you've got to remember against the Skins they were behind from the start, and before that against Kansas City, Jones just didn't run good at all. But he's averaged about 6 yards a carry in the last 2 weeks, so it looks like he's back. Should run all over the Rams next week as well.