Flash Tizzle

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 06:37 PM) Wait, what? Now you are arguing rounds? I thought you were arguing for a higher slot. You simply can't say a player has less risk than another player simply because he was drafted higher. That is completely asinine and you know it. I only addressed rounds because Pratt was questioning the reason why one player should be given a certain amount of money when that amount can be thrown about a larger number of players. To me, this means devoting more money to players taken later in the draft. That's all I infered from his statement. Suggesting there's still less risk with the first round selection than taking several overslotted 12-15th rounders is the point I'm trying to make here.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 06:09 PM) or Why spend money on one guy who may or may not bomb when we can save it for many, many more scouts who will help us discover talented players? Again, I don't understand why this has to be an either/or issue. We're a major league team two years removed from a World Series in the 3rd largest city in the United States. Our payroll last year and this year was over 100 million. We should have more than enough to hire scouts and provide high bonuses for players. Finishing 26th overall in draft bonuses just shouldn't happen.

Why are we limited to spending money on one guy? Why should a team ranked five overall in payroll have to choose one over another? To answer your question directly, you select the one guy with the higher position who may or may not bomb because there's higher potential associated with him. Go through the draft, dating back as far as possible, and try to find me one instance where a round outside the first produced more major leaugers in any given season. You'll find a gem here or there, but I'd rather try and find our Tim Lincecum in the Top 10 rather than our Matt Garza around 25.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 05:11 PM) Seems like a lot on this board are just aching to get Sweeney in the starting lineup. Unfortunately he has a lot to learn and prove at AAA, let alone MLB. Ryan Sweeney won't be pushing Jermaine Dye out of RF in 2008. Sweeney will be an insurance policy or if he shows growth by leaps and bounds between now and 3/31/08 he might be a 4th OF next year. They want to contend and they have more payroll room than most of this board realizes. Problem I have is, even with several FA additions (perhaps a trade), is it enough to win the American League Central? Or the Wild Card? I just don't believe we're capable of defeating Detroit, Minnesota, and Cleveland next season without a collection of career years from the pitching staff and lineup. IMO, the entire key to the division is Liriano. If he returns even at 75%, there's yet another team with an advantage over ours. Minnesota may lose Hunter and replace with him some soft hitting guy with a girly name, but a pitching staff headed by Santana/Garza/Liriano is better than anything we can throw out.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 05:54 PM) What difference does draft position make if the organization won't change their philosophy? What is the difference if the White Sox draft Danks 4th or 10th? Oh right, he gets more money. Even if they're unwilling to go overslot or deal with Boras, the chances are still better we'll find a quality player at 4th or 5th than 10th or above. Yes, there's uncertainty even at the top of the draft, but as I've said countless times when this issue has been discussed, you atleast want the opportunity to scout a larger number of players. Not having to hope, for once, that the player we've set our sights on falls. Any benefit for us in the draft should be taken advantage of. I'm really surprised everyone isn't aboard considered the pure crap we've produced the last decade.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 05:22 PM) I remember when I was crazy to suggest that Garland isn't quite as good as he'd been from 05-06 and that his "knot" is disconcerting and that he'd be a PERFECT choice to "sell high" on, and then Flash started saying it but still people said, "No, no, that's a bad idea, he so good," and it's not looking like it. He's a perfect "sell high to a contender" kind of guy. I remember several members saying, "oh, well, if you want to compete you need somone such as Garland." The entire point was, and still is, that we needed someone of value (with service time remaining) to be traded in order to receive positional prospects. We could absorb the loss of pitcher more than any other position. At the end of July it was quite obvious this team wasn't going to be doing anything in October. We'll regret the decision each passing day if starts such as this afternoon keep coming up. I honestly believe Williams just doesn't understand the idea of trading high. He'd rather unload people at their lowest value then take a calculated risk.

YAY, two more seasons of watching Dye turn singles into doubles and doubles into triples.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 02:50 PM) The thing I hate most about this free agent market is that it is totally impossible to construct a team on the FA market unless you're the Yankees. There are so many teams out there looking for that one last, single piece, or so they think, that the price of everyone gets pushed upwards. It makes no sense to try to build a team through the FA market these days. It only makes sense to build a team through trades and the draft. If you are actually one piece away, then you can go to the FA market, maybe find that piece, and wind up with a title. But it just seems so impossible to find an acutal bargain these days on the FA market that if you try to plug every little hole that appears via that route, you'll wind up paying $100 million to 6 guys and having the rest of your team be AA players. This is exactly why Williams cannot miss in any upcoming trades this offseason. All I ask for from Williams is one deal similar to what Cleveland received for Bartolo Colon or Minnesota with Pierzynski. We desperately need a deal where more than one position is filled with a capable major league player. Whether it's for 2008 or (more likely) 2009 and beyond. What we've received from McCarthy and Garcia isn't enough. And let's not even begin to discuss our success in the draft. If several years pass without any indication of improvements, it may be time to dismantle from top to bottom. We've passed the point in time where the farm system can be used as currency. It's time to see production from within, and people being held accountable (aside from Shaffer) for failures.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 04:46 PM) Over/under on homers for Fields: 19.5. I'd probably take the under, but that's a real real close under -- I'd peg him for 18 or 19. Judging from his homerun off Hernandez, as well as previous ones where it appeared he accidentally hit it out, I'm guessing he'll have around 22 to conclude the season.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 04:31 PM) Or find a LF, pencil in Crede at 3b, and let Fields get a ton of at-bats against LHP, play twice a week at 3rd base, etc. Even if it's a LF who excels vs RHP, but struggles vs LHP, that's fine. Get Fields some experience in LF as well then. I'd definitely like to see more creativity by Ozzie/KW, especially when it comes to facing lefties. And allow Guillen more players to f*** around with? You just have to keep things simple. Either have Fields play full time in LF, or full time at 3B.

I'd honestly have more respect for Williams if he just completely dismantled the ballclub. Yeah, I know, Williams won't rebuild and has already told Guillen as much. It just feels fake. Almost as if 2008 -- far away as it may be -- is just some old whore dressed up in makeup to appear pretty, but everyone still knows what lies beneath. It just seems pointless. We're just delaying the inevitable rebuilding one more season. I'm under the belief that rebuilding now is better with the world series still in recent memory, rather than several seasons from now when the season ticket base begins to decline. Anyways, even if the next few years are bad, once the team begins to rebound from the cellar the fans will be back. No one should be worried about losing fans forever.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 04:10 PM) I can't believe we didn't DL Hall in July and let him get the surgery. Good point about the chemistry though....it seems odd. This is embarassing right now....someone has to lose their job. At this point, every day Hall and his patsy swing remains on the club is another day he's removing himself from next season. What's so difficult about having the surgery and undergoing rehabilitation before next season begins? Are we just intent on making everything as hard as possible?

QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 03:59 PM) It took several years of us sucking to get those picks. Welcome to 2007-2009.

I love how the scorekeepers are doing their best to ensure Garland has as many runs added to his line as possible. Garland isn't helping himself either, obviously. SOOOOO glad Williams decided not to trade him before the trading deadline. Great move, K-Dub.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 11:18 AM) I wonder if there is any way of getting Ellsbury from the Red Sox in the offseason... or to a lesser extent Crisp. We should draft our own Ellsbury -- problem solved. Don't have to worry about trading for anyone. We can then draft our own Clay Buchholz while we're at it. Imagine that for a second; drafting players comparable those two with our first two selections. Seems almost impossible to expect, I know.

I'm sure glad Williams decided not to trade Garland when it was obvious to anyone familar with his career his value would never be higher. Honestly, many of us we're calling that mistake from the moment July past and his remained on this ballclub. Oh man, I can't wait for everyone to throw out excuses as to why Garland will receive nowhere near our expectations in the offseason. What I have to say to that is, oops, too bad -- Williams has to receive a quality package for the success of our franchise. We absolutely cannot have anymore trades such as those last season with Garcia and McCarthy. Say what you want about "winning" these deals because of injuries to both pitchers, but I don't look at Danks/Masset/Rasner for McCarthy and Floyd/Gonzalez for Garcia as franchise changing trades. As I've said before, those trades are the equivalent of taking one step backwards, one and a half steps forward. You may improve slightly, but not enough to overcome other defencies on the ballclub.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 07:57 AM) Yea, but this team is really close and expects to compete next year. /sarcasm This entire organization is in shambles. As bad as it was this year, Javy, Jenks and Buehrle have been amazing this year. Garland, most often, has been very good. Even with 3 starting pitchers pitching lights out most of the year, this team is still one of the 5 worst in baseball. We haven't won over 4 games in a row all season no matter who was playing/healthy. Our top average hitter is (Of all people) Darrin Erstad. Minnesota and Detroit have faced injuries but manage to avoid last place. This team is loaded with marginal baseball players with a few aging stars sprinkled in. Kenny may try to patch it together with a couple of support players or maybe he'll go out and sign yet another aging 'superstar', but I see no chance the White Sox get back to the top next year. And I don't know if I want to watch pretty much this same plodding team next year. I get the impression people still don't realize how many factors will have to come together next season just for us to compete. Yes, "compete" -- a completely subjective term. For us to realisticaly contend for a championship, which is ultimately the goal of baseball, we'll need the stars to align. As with any team looking ahead to October, two of the three divisions of a team need to be stellar: starting rotation, bullpen, offense. I could forsee our rotation possibly coming together, but what's discouraing is even with a decent rotation (such as this season) we're still in last place. You put it together nicely -- this White Sox ballclub isn't talented. It's a collection of marginal talent in a division with more talented teams.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 11:04 PM) Well from the barren wasteland of the late 80s, those top ten draft picks brought us guys like McDowell, Ventura and Thomas. We also picked up Fernadez and a few others with our lower draft position. I will just be pissed as all hell if we cheap it out. We need to find either a legitamate ace with upper 90s dominating stuff, or a stud position player that can be inserted in 2 years. Notice Mr. Maybin who jacked a dong off of Roger today as the type of impact. I dont want someone that will take 5 years to sniff the majors. It all depends upon the draft class, their agent/asking price, and whether anyone fitting those descriptions falls to our slot. I'm just going to assume right now, before I know anything, that we'll be screwed in some way. I'm just waiting until someone says, "this is the worst draft class in recent memory" to reaffirm my fears. And if the class is deeply talented, suddenly, every team will understand the importance of drafting the best players available. Just as now, when we're looking to acquire prospects for our players, suddenly everyone values prospects. You and I may be overly negative, but it's to the point where minor league production will be crucial to our long term success. We need to hit big in 2008. Due to Buehrle and Dye resigning, we're not going to have an opportunity for additional draft picks. It may be 40 picks between our first and second selection. First round can't be a bust. Just can't be.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) Hey, I'll gladly take last place -- give me that higher draft pick. I believe we're currently 5th or 6th worst in all of baseball. There's no way we finish the worst in all of baseball -- Tampa Bay is just too bad -- but all of the other teams behind us are in striking distance. There's a reasonably good chance the Sox get a top five pick next season. I've been aboard the draft-pick wagon for quite awhile. Ultimately, what's the difference between 70 and 80 wins when it's obvious your team isn't going to contend for a playoff spot? Do fans care whether the team ends with a .500 record? May as well sit back, enjoy bad baseball, and hope entering next June the White Sox and their amateur scouting staff take advantage of their position to select a talented player. Yes, Santo, there's no guarantee our position lands us Tim Lincecum or another potential All-Star. My belief is, you atleast want the opportunity to scout a larger collection of players. Selecting at #25, you're not going to expect many players to drop. We haven't had that luxury (if you look at it that way) in over fifteen years. If our first round selections would have been more successful I may suggest a higher slot doesn't matter. But it's obvious we could use every advantage afforded to us.

Wasserman surrenders the lead and Owens gives Seattle an insurance run. 5-3. Last place, baby!

Kansas City currently leading Oakland 7-3 in the 8th. Good chance we end this night in last place.

I guess it's easier for Hawk and DJ to suggest "bad luck" was the reason the ball shot over Fields that than blame Danks for laying a fat fastball down the plate. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?autocom=chat

I don't mind the extension, itself. 22 million over two seasons isn't much of a risk. What I absolutely HATE is the reason we're at this point. Once again, our minor league system has failed us. Because we're void of a legitimate OF prospect(s) Williams has no choice but to devote money to Dye. Unfortunately, a similar situation may present itself with Uribe and Erstad. It has just become pathetic. No team with aspirations for a championship can continue without production from within. I can't wait until we resign Pierzynski because there's no legitimate catching prospect within the system. Someone tell me that scenario isn't inevitable. Even with Jermaine, my thoughts towards 2008 haven't changed. Williams still needs to acquire minor league talent from Garland (and yes, my expectations are still high) and immediately improve the positional prospects within the organization. Until these both occur, the future isn't looking good for Williams or the White Sox.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 17, 2007 -> 10:37 PM) His replacment then will either be a 40+ year old SS who used to play for Cleveland or a Pixie who plays SS for the Cardinals. This is where a better organization would dig down into their minor league system and pull out someone for SS. Or LF. Or CF. Or RF.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 17, 2007 -> 10:17 PM) He just seems to have no strength behind his swing. He looks more like Otis Nixon than anything else right now. Between him and Owens, there's no way you can actually think you can compete for the AL Central last with those mediocre players as full-time starters. My belief from this point forward is this team has absolutely no chance to reach the playoffs next season until proven otherwise. I'm not going to just sit back like others and keep throwing out passive phrases such as "Williams has all offseason to (blank)" No. Until that moment arrives, and it benefits us, then I'm looking right past 2008 and into 2009. And no -- to answer the inevitable question which comes after posts such as these -- I'm not going to stop posting if I have no hope for next season. I'd rather annoy everyone.