Flash Tizzle

QUOTE(Sonik22 @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 05:44 PM) Does anybody else dread watching the games that Contreras starts? Go Sox! No, because I'm interested in another round of Guillen leaving in Contreras much too long and turning an acceptable start into a terrible one.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 04:47 PM) I wonder though if people are going to continue having huge expectations for what we'd get if we moved a Dye, Contreras, or Iguchi. They're just not going to bring us back top-of-the-league level talent, unfortunately. None of those names concern me. It's for the reasons you've mentioned, which I understand are legitimate, that someone with value must leave. Jon Garland or Javier Vazquez need to be traded. Concerning their value, my expectations are sky high and nothing will bring them down. I know Williams has insisted he's not interested in rebuilding, but how in the hell is this team supposed to position itself for future success when the minor league system is baron of positional prospects? Moving Dye, Contreras, or Iguchi hardly helps us. We'll need to take a risk similar to that of Brandon McCarthy; except the return must provide substantially more talent. Williams can't screw this up.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 03:28 PM) I think at that point I was one of the very few that supported him (and its funny cause even with all the crap I've given him from time to time I still like him as the GM...however that could change if he totally messes up this process for retooling or rebuilding in 08. A process which should begin within the next week. Williams has to know how vital to our future any forthcoming trades will be. I know I won't be the only one furious if he f***s it up.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 09:05 PM) What do you think of Hu or Escobar for SS. I'd love Hu at shortstop. Don't know if it's too reasonable to expect him. Escobar would be an interesting option. Prefer him to Renteria and his salary. With Escobar, in constrast with Uribe, you'd have shortstop capable of showing patience. Problem is, he's not exactly the high ceiling prospect I'd prefer from any starter dealt.

This is honestly embarrassing to watch. Floyd just isn't the recepient of bad luck; he's terrible. Williams needs to reassure everyone again how we're not seeing the real Gavin Floyd. Because from what I've seen in two starts, there should be some people within our organization sweating. Our future depends upon the return value of traded players. That's obvious with our draft results and reluctance to overpay in the free agent market. Receiving one dependable major league player for McCarthy and none (to now) for Garcia won't help us much. That's why I hope everyone doesn't just blow off this upcoming deadline. We desperately need a heist. I've seen quotes around here recently that echo that same sentiment. Productive, cheap players have to come up and balance out the cost of higher priced veterans. We can't do this from within, alone.

These last two hits have been crushed. Floyd isn't fooling anyone. Oh, and I sure envy other teams moving first to third on hard-hit singles to the CF. Rarely see it occur with this ballclub.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 08:42 PM) Either the coaching staff doesnt know how to setup the field to play to the strengths of the gameplan, or Prancer is blowing kisses to the crowd and is in his usual spot that he doesnt move from. I could understand not shading the direction a pitcher/catcher are setting up. Hitters would quickly catch on if a fielder was constantly moving depending upon a catcher placing their mits inside or outside homeplate. Anyways, there's no guarantee the pitcher throws to the spot the catcher has targeted. I have to imagine Podsednik was set up according to Polanco's hit chart. Problem is, his speed has practically disappeared and his arm is the suck

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 08:28 PM) Can we please put Hall on the DL? There's no reason to keep him on the roster right now. Every moment he remains on this club only delays his return next season. I don't understand why he continues to play in this pitiful season. Just have him undergo surgery, rehabilitate, and hopefully be full strength by April.

Owens has mastered the art of bunting directly into the path of an opposing player. Someone should tell him to do that every time, so by nature he'll do the opposite and find an open area of field.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 08:10 PM) is charlie not available tonight? Someone's going to have to get floyd out of there soon. He was warming in the afternoon game. I can only imagine he'll be up soon if runs continue crossing the board.

That's terrible for Fields to miss a flat 84 mph fastball. I don't know where the "cut" was that Hawk refered to.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 08:00 PM) At least we got Gio back. Nice effort Mack. And if he fails? I have to say, what we're witnessing from the Garcia and McCarthy returns is percisely why Williams has to pray any upcoming trades net us several major league prospects. It's not enough to say, "oh, well we traded Brandon and got Danks. And Gonzalez/Floyd for an injured Garcia." The entire point of these deals was not to take the equivalent of one step backwards, one and half step forwards; but several steps forward. Make deals which provide several contributing pieces. I'm not exactly thrilled with the prospect of ultimately receiving two trades with a one-for-one result.

We're lucky Granderson didn't send Floyds hanging curveball into the stands. I don't care whether or not this is his second start for the White Sox, he's looked TERRIBLE from the innings I've seen him. And I'm not judging merely based on results, but his stuff. As Fathom noted, his fastball deterioated quickly after the first. Hitters are having good looks at his now 91 mph fastball and a curveball which bites only half the time. Another embarrassment for the White Sox scouting department it seems.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 07:55 PM) But Masset and Floyd looked awesome in the Arizona Fall League! Let's be accurate here. Floyd looked awesome in the Arizona Fall League. Masset looked good in the Mexican League. Together, they have proven our scouting department can scout other teams players anywhere in North America. And, at that, base a decision upon limited innings.

Let's see if Floyd can avoid embarrassing himself this start. It'd be great for him to show promise against Detroit's offense.

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) I think it's entirely possible that we might be able to trade Contreras at the deadline but not in the offseason. First of all, teams are a lot more desperate at the deadline than in the offseason. Also, if recent trends on continue his numbers might be substantially worse at the end of the season than at the deadline. You wouldn't get that impression from the last several years. Teams may be desperate at a certain point near August 1st, but they're probably not going to give up too much for a rent-a-player. If we're looking to receive anything of value, someone with more than two months on their contract should be traded. Garland has to go.

QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 02:16 PM) I don't think KW can trade Garland because of his injury. If KW were to trade Garland now, and his shoulder knot becomes worse, it would make KW an undesirable trading partner. Sirotka, Garcia and Garland? KW needs to keep Garland to ensure he has fellow GMs he can work with in the future. That said, I don't want him to trade Vazquez either, but for a different reason: Vazquez is good and has a decent contract. Trade Contreras if at all possible. A shoulder knot is different from an injury. He had the same problem last season and worked over it. That's no excuse for not trading him. Garland could and should command quite a bit in return. I know I'm not accepting any excuses to the contrary. If Williams is looking to improve our minor league system, rather than dump salary (as what would happen with Contreras), someone with value needs to depart.

QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 04:18 PM) Crede's attitude problems don't stop at his selfish refusal to have back surgery, but include his refusal to play winter ball at the team's request. After his dismal 2004 campaign, (.239 BA .299 OBP) the Sox asked Crede to play winter ball to improve his regressing skills. Not only did the surly Crede shun the request of his employer to improve his game, but his response when asked by a reporter was something like, "There's no reason for me to play winter ball now because there's nothing more I have to learn." You're reaching quite a bit with these examples. See, where you look at refusing back surgery as selfish, I consider it a precautionary move. It wasn't as if he sat around all offseason in agony, all the while fooling the organization into believing he was fine. He conducted specialized weight training and exercise techniques to strengthen his lower body. Considering who is advising him, if Boras believed back surgery was in his client's best interest it would have been addressed in the offseason. There's inherent risk with any medical procedure requiring incisions in the back. I don't blame him for holding off. Crede cares about Crede; no different than any profressional baseball player. About his refusal to play winterball, it may be suggestive of someone shunning his employer to some, but I wouldn't consider it an attitude problem. The quote you referenced doesn't change much. If he believes there's nothing to improve in his game, what else can you say? Atleast he had limited success in 2002 and a full season thereafter of decent production in 2003 to fall back on.

Crede's back problems are terrible for this organization. If he were healthy we'd have an additional trading chip to unload before August. Or, the most likely scenario, Crede would have remained a member of the team until the offseason then traded. Now, I wouldn't be shocked if Fields were in LF and Crede back at 3B entering 2008. It's not a terrible move (especially since it removes one more hole for Williams to fill), but I hate delaying Fields development at 3B for Crede to put together one good season in his walk year. And you know, just to make our lives miserable, he'll have a mediocre season and the organization will wrestle with granting him arbitration.

I'm still holding out high expectations for Williams to pull of a substantial trade which benefits our ballclub. I just won't accept any excuses to the contrary. Certaintly no "standing pat" nonsense. Sorry, those are the expectations which have to be met if we're looking to overcome weak drafting practicies, reluctance to sign high priced free agents (esp. those not familar with a discount), and a contributing farm system. It's not just empty rhetoric. Seriously -- I question anyone to list the ways this team can improve over this season if not for a literal heist in a trade which produces immediate results. You all know full well Williams will be shuffling through the garbage heap of free agency and through other teams, looking for the next "Coop project" or "diamond in the rough." It may have worked in 2005, but I'm tired of hearing about grinders and Gavin Floyd types which were once highly regarded, have talent, but have yet to put it all together. Regardless of someone's perceived value on this board and across the internet, it's his job to find talent to benefit our future. Primarily positional prospects. It's my belief Jon Garland must be out of here by August 1st. We'll only be through the entire contract negotiation soap-opera with Garland as what occured with Buehrle. And since it's unlikely such a high percentage of the overall payroll (perhaps 40%) would be tied up in three pitchers, why hold onto Jon? So people can give the same excuses for Williams potentially receiving less in a trade as they have with Buehrle? Even if one were to suggest to deal Garland in the offseason, I rather do it now and gain the additional value from a half-season more of work for whatever team acquires him. Does anyone actually believe we're going to reach the post-season next season? Honestly now, unless dramatic changes occur which improve the roster (primarily the offense and bullpen) how exactly will this team compete with Cleveland or Detroit? I can see the replies now -- "how can you expect to compete with those teams when the strength of the White Sox is weakened with a Garland trade." From my perspective, if our current collection of starters isn't enough to overcome such a deficit in the standings, what difference will next season be? Anyways, if there's one area of the team our minor league system can be expected to provide several interesting options it's pitching. I'd love to get rid of Contreras, but he isn't going anywhere right now. A dropoff from Garland to Gonzalez or Floyd may be all be certain, but considering the large discrepancy in payroll I'd rather take his impending salary (as well as the prospects obtained) and slowly build for the future. Everytime I hear people such as Chris Rongey suggest the "talent is here" and "don't expect much changes in the roster beginning next season," all I can think to myself is "90 loss team." Two straight seasons. There's nothing anyone can do unless a similar formula is ressurected in 2008 as it was in 2005 -- shrewd, cheap pickups who produce alongside a stellar pitching staff. Oh, and those pesky divisional opponents with something called talent need to revert back to mediocrity. I'll still be here every day to point out these losses form 2007 onwards, as well. So atleast all of you have that to look forward to.

I'm sure we're bound to witness a repeat of the 1st inning for many more years to come. Atleast we have upcoming pitching prospects comparable to Miller. Right?

Miller is succeeding without consistently throwing his breaking ball for a strike. Hell, even his fastball has been difficult to control. Whenever the moment arrives when these particular pitches are harnessed, we're in trouble. Atleast we'll have an opportunity to draft our Miller next draft. Boras or not, the excuse of poor draft position due to our record will no longer be valid.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 21, 2007 -> 05:19 PM) ERA's E Wassermann 20.25 B Logan 5.81 D Day 12.27 Well, you know what they say -- immediate success and White Sox prospects just don't go together.

What the hell is Guillen screaming about? It appeared from his body language he was suggesting to Lugo (?) his side may be hit next time around. I'm guessing his anger stems from Lugo after he struck out.

That's why Guillen put the shift on for Hinske yesterday!