Flash Tizzle

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 10:13 AM) 1. 20 players won't be back. From the current 25, I can name 7 players highly unlikely to return: Cintron, Uribe, Bukvich, Podsednik, MMac/Thornton (one of the two), Garland, Gonzalez. Then you can pretty much figure that one or two others will go in trades, that aren't what people thought - could be Contreras, Hall, heck anyone else really is possible. That is 9+ guys right there. Somehow didn't consider Podsednik when compiling my list. He'll obviously be somewhere else in 2008. I wouldn't label MacDougal or Thornton's departures as likely. Neither would I be confident that more than one starting pitcher (or additional positional player) is playing for another team come April . Konerko and Thome are the only feasible offensive trade candidates entering the offseason. And while dealing Konerko is an idea Williams should explore, it all depends upon other offensive additions and -- most importantly -- his value on the trade market. Cintron, Uribe, Bukvich, Podsednik, Gonzalez, one SP are the names I'm sticking by. I didn't forget them. I just didn't need to consider it since I'm looking towards the offseason. There's the issue -- what constitutes a "major" upgrade to SS, CF, and a reliever spot in your mind? I'd consider major as Tejada replacing Uribe, Hunter/Jones replacing Grindy/Owens, and perhaps trading for a proven reliever. That's potentially a whole lot of money thrown about, with the likelihood several of Gonzalez/Egbert/DeLosSantos are gone. I don't believe that's going to happen. Neither should it. And they'll need their pitching depth to remain intact if Garland and/or Contreras are to be traded. I know you weren't suggesting it blatantly, but I believe for legitimate position player prospects we'll either have to deal our SP prospects or strike gold with dealing Garland, Konerko, etc. We should be worried about assembling talent, not trading off what we believe is depth than later on having to compensate for it. As if the Young situation has taught us nothing. Who's to say the wrong player isn't traded and what we're left with is inconsistency and/or injury problems? We're in no position to do this right now, where the direction of this franchise is heading down. Production in rookie ball doesn't help our 2008 ballclub. That is the issue here. Sure, there may be several potential blue-chip prospects in Great Falls and Bristol, but that's several years away. And until production continues in the higher levels against better competition I'm not going to change my position towards this team's farm system. Yes, since I'm not going to believe they'll outbid even the limited teams seeking a proven OF until proven otherwise. I'm sure they'll do everything they can to give everyone the impression 2008 isn't a rebulding season. That's what worries me. To what extent will they go? Will they feel DLS or Carter don't help us within the immediate future and, therefore, are expendable? They traded Young to "win-now." Why wouldn't they do it again? Even if you're willing to adopt the "wait and see" approach, you have to recognize that for the White Sox to turn themselves around, we'll need to hit with EVERY offseason deal. Every trade much benefit us, and every FA signing much produce to their potential. I'll be much more critical of Williams if he receives crap in any trade scenario than I will if he overpays for Hunter. Even if he's serious about 2008, he has to realize -- if 2007 wasn't proof enough -- that talent needs to be injected into this organization. Cheap, productive talent.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 10, 2007 -> 08:11 AM) I'd wager against that. Let's say for argument sakes that 20/25 of those players on the active roster (before September 1st) return. I'd consider that a significant amount. Now, let's put it together -- perhaps we'll have a new SS and CF, UTL MIF, a bullpen arm, and maybe one additional SP if Garland or Contreras is traded. This is fairly accurate, wouldn't you say? I don't believe such changes would be enough to compete for a playoff birth. It's going to be quite funny to listen to management try and convince Sox fans they're going to contend next season. That's why I believe Williams is only digging himself further into the ground. He would be better off rebuilding with the few players who hold value rather than giving everyone the impression this team will compete, then when they don't, having to look ridiculous. Atleast we'd expect hardships with a rebuilding effort. What will the excuse be in 2008 if it's similar to this season? Reading articles which suggest David Eckstein is our number 1 offseason target is ridiculous. So is overpaying for Torii Hunter or Aaron Rowand. We're in a real bind. Only way we're getting talent is trading SP prospects, which is not the way to go with an organization void of many high ceiling players.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Sep 9, 2007 -> 11:44 AM) Next year will be different that's what is so great about baseball How if it wont? You can't guarantee otherwise, considering nearly the entire roster will be back.

Any updates on Brown's "strained knee?" It'd really be a shame if he were to be injured (again......again).

And that's a White Sox loser. Tampa won. We're within one game.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 9, 2007 -> 03:10 PM) Thank you Alex Cintron. It was his fault for prolonging both innings, but really, Garland become rattled after Cintron's errors. Even if the runs didn't score we'd still have a 1-1 game with our bullpen matching up against Minnesota's.

I can't just let this game go by without a thread. Even if it's Santana pitching, and we're currently losing 4-1 in the 7th, there needs to be space devoted to our failures. Currently, Tampa is leading Toronto and Baltimore is tied with Boston. This could be a very good day for us.

We're losing 5-2 in the 4th. FOX has been screwing around with the picture nearly all day. I don't know if anyone else has had this problem.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 11:33 PM) AJ hates Pedro Alvarez. 2.5 games separate us from him now. Still plenty of time left in September.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 10:41 PM) Actually no, she passed away 20 years ago. But I am told that while she lived in Bridgeport she helped train the scoreboard operators who then trained the guys who work the speed gun who are laughing their ass off at the moment at conspiracy types like you. Wait, was JFK assassinated in 1987?

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 10:30 PM) Two game threads would be the solution. ........ Nah.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 10:27 PM) No true White Sox fan wants the team to lose. ORLY?

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 10:15 PM) Broadway debut, as seen from mlb.com gameday: Was adrenaline for his first appearance a factor in his velocity? I'd say yes, based on what I've seen of him in his Charlotte starts I've watched, but still not bad. BTW, two of those "changeups" (the first and third) were curveballs.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 10:24 PM) Can we have two game threads from now on? One for those who want the Sox to win; another for those who want them to lose? Geez. Take it to the Tampa boards. Nah.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 10:20 PM) Flash, you got quiet since I posted those velocities from gameday on Broadway? Would you be happier if I lied and told you he was throwing 86 to 88? LOL, ground rule double, tie game. I thought that was out of here actually, you got to be kidding me. If it's accurate, then his future may be in the bullpen. I'd like to see him sustain the velocity over several appearances.

I swear, they can't even lose right. Now it's time for the useless late season winning streak!

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 10:09 PM) Hey who killed Pres. Kennedy by the way? YOUR MA

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 10:02 PM) You think it's a conspiracy of some sort, or they are trying to hide something? Not sure what you mean. I can only assume the purpose would have been to hide his velocity. Although I also understand if anyone is interested in Broadway they'll have scouts on hand with their own radar guns. If not, what else could possibly explain consistent radar showing ALL night expect for Broadway? Am I supposed to believe the person responsible took a bathroom break and there's nothing more to it? I recall last season how, mysteriously, certain Freddy Garcia starts didn't have a radar gun available either.

Anyone else find it rather coincidental that all night Comcast had featured velocity readings for pitchers, yet, when Broadway pitched nothing was shown? I don't. Now it's back on for DePaula.

Lollerz at Phillips. His stuff is terrible.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 4, 2007 -> 09:37 AM) From my point of view, it's real simple....if we had lost one more game in 2002, we would have had the OPPORTUNITY to select Cole Hamels. Instead, the Phillies had a pick one spot higher, and they could take him, and we took Royce Ring. I've mentioned this before, as well. Who knows whether we'd have selected him, but looking back on 2002, would it have mattered one bit if the White Sox lost several more games? Imagine if we miss Alvarez or someone else highly talented because of several extra victories this season...

QUOTE(joesaiditstrue @ Sep 4, 2007 -> 04:15 AM) we could've had porcello before detroit got him, i have no faith in this organization actually farming up great players, so us getting a first pick probably would look something like "And the Chicago White Sox, with their first pick of the 2008 Player Draft select ." (Camera pans to KW High-Fiving JR) Meanwhile, back at soxtalk..... Poster1: WTF? Poster2: lol, why am I not surprised? Poster3: IT'Z BECAUSE OF BORAS etc.etc. Aside from those points, you know what's going to be even better if they select someone projected to fall far out of 1st? Because the draft is televised, we'll actually get to SEE whomever is chosen walk up to the front of the stage, put on a White Sox hat, and smile while their picture is taken with Selig. It'll be an image forever edged into our minds when more talented players are chosen afterwards. Additionally, you can count on Reifert writing an article which begins "(insert player) was their choice along." 2006: http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/inside_th.../draft_day.html 2007: http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/inside_th...e_the_draf.html

This thread is one reason why Soxtalk. Just the fact this thread exists and no one has yet to chime in with a smart-ass response of questioning fan devotion. Or suggesting something demeaning such as "this thread sucks." Truthfully, it's the question everyone has asked, yet, up until now, has never been addressed on its own. When I browse that other Sox-related website, I get the distinct impression people are almost afraid to even suggest it. I haven't even seen one person raise the possibility that losing more games for the first overall selection may benefit our future. For a website with over double the number of members Soxtalk has, I find it quite odd no one has discussed the issue previously.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 4, 2007 -> 01:22 AM) I don't disagree that Oneli's got good numbers, he's been good for 2 seasons now. It is easier for the Pads to find better bullpen guys though just because of PETCO. Our relievers if they pitched there would have much better numbers than they do now. But as Balta said, you don't want to pay a Scott Linebrink a 20M contract in the off-season. Hence why KW's in a tough spot. I think it'd be more likely he would acquire arms through the trade route before giving a shot to an untested rookie at the major league level, even if his numbers indicate he could be ready. QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 4, 2007 -> 01:22 AM) Hence why KW's in a tough spot. I think it'd be more likely he would acquire arms through the trade route before giving a shot to an untested rookie at the major league level, even if his numbers indicate he could be ready. If Williams does that, he's an idiot. Potentially overpay for relievers -- who are historically regarded as inconsistent season to season -- when there are, literally, countless substitutes within the system? And I don't believe there's any question he'd overpay. Didn't he spent last offseason and the midseason prior acquiring bullpen arms? If the relievers on the team aren't producing, tough. He can't continue to trade for relievers until a few stick. I'd rather give Broadway, Phillips, Floyd, Sisco, Aardsma, Masset, Haeger, Perez, Day, Vasquez ALL opportunities to succeed out of the bullpen before I'd trade for one more bullpen arm. I hope Williams feels the same way.

I don't want them to lose every game -- just three less than games than Tampa Bay. Or however many is necessary to achieve the top draft position. Pedro Alvarez, from accounts on Baseball America and PGCrosschecker, is a generational talent. He's the consensus #1 pick nearly 9 months before the draft. Who knows, perhaps next baseball season several more players emerge and make our decision that much more difficult. I just know there hasn't been discussions of who'll be available at #5-#7, where a prolonged winning streak (>5 games) could send us. Try to look at it from this perspective, Greg -- in 2010, will you look back upon 2007 and think to yourself, "well, I'm sure glad we won 75 games instead of 65 games"? I believe you're looking at this issue all wrong. You can't look past the present, whereas those of us who understand the importance someone such as Pedro Alvarez holds for our future couldn't care less about winning meaningless games. Rooting for the Sox to lose doesn't make you less of a fan. We're all looking out for the team's best interests. You (and two other people) believe winning every games hold symbolic importance. Eight others and myself look at losing every game as improving the chances that the White Sox have an opportunity to draft impact player. Something we're desperately missing.