Flash Tizzle

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ May 30, 2007 -> 09:00 PM) Ok, fair enough, what do you suggest, I mean what should fans do? Picket? Start a letter writing campaign? Not trying to be the wiseacre but posting it on a message board doesn't do much of anything. Don't some people who own this site have conncetions as it looks like some interviews are done with prospects? What about a q/a with some of these scouts or development guys. Maybe then questions can be answered and philosophies and such. It doesn't do much posting on a message board, but I believe you're underestimating the people who browse Soxtalk. If the issue is continually brought up, as it has been recently, more and more fans and other guests are exposed to our thoughts. Perhaps they'll wonder whether we're right and research it themselves. I'll admit "pressure" in this instance doesn't mean much. But it just seems our failures in developing talent has continually been overlooked. Well, now -- in this division, with these teams -- our future depends upon it. Other teams within the division just have more talented players both on their current rosters, and within their systems. My suggestion? Bring up the issue at Soxfest. Or when writing to Mark Gonzalez, among other writers. Perhaps when calling into Chris Ronge's post game show. Our future depends upon the production from within the system, and judging from the reaction of the media, you wouldn't hardly know.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:52 PM) Some of Guillen's remarks post game: "They compete as a team. They get you as a team, and that's why they win," said Guillen, who alternated between blaming himself and criticizing his players throughout his postgame remarks. Guillen has long been impressed by the Twins, who sped by the slumping White Sox last summer on the way to their fourth division title in the last five years. But he pinned most of the afternoon's performance on the visiting team. "Offense, defense, pitching, manager, coaches, we all stink," Guillen said. In addition, Aardsma described his brief outing as "pathetic". No argument there. In the AL Central catch everything thread, benchwarmerJim posted an extended article in which Guillen further discussed his frustrations. In particular, the quote about blaming different divisions of the team cited Kenny Williams. Whatever publication you used conveniently left that out. I honestly don't care how much he calls out the team if he refrains from citing individuals on the team. It was "embarrassing" (as he said in the other article), and many people need to held accountable. No sugercoating needed.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:32 PM) However, years of horrible minor league development is really going to kill us.Of course it will. Which is why the pressure should be increased from fans everywhere. Expect more in trades; more from the minor league system. This upcoming draft, expect more from their scouts. It doesn't even matter if it's unrealistic. Their needs to be some level of expectations on a group of people who haven't done much to secure the team's future. Danks/Masset, Floyd and Gonzalez isn't enough.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ May 30, 2007 -> 07:26 PM) A lot of you are going to be very disapoinited come the deadline. Unless Kenny has a drastic philosophical change, I just don't see him being a total seller at the deadline. He really has never done it, and as bad as this team is/is playing, I really don't think the Sox will be so bad that they are total sellers. If this team is ready to rebuild, Ozzie/Williams isn't the combo that should be in charge. If such a scenario arises where we're obviously out of contention (7+ out of division, 5+ out of wildcard with ~5 teams to jump), and Williams adops this machismo, selfish demeanor, then he damn well better locate stellar prospects the following offseason. In addition, make the most out of draft picks obtained from Buehrle, Dye, perhaps Iguchi. Regardless of anything involving the major league club, I still expect a drastic philosophical change in about a week concerning the draft. That's one thing I shouldn't be disappointed about, especially concerning recent comments from Rick Hahn. As I type this, we're looking at a delicious 6.5 games out of first place with Indians leading 6-2 in the 6th inning. Although we're still within distance of the wild card with Detroit currently losing.

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ May 30, 2007 -> 06:03 PM) if we start dumping, all I have to say is this: We'd better get legitimate prospects. Not Mike Caruso. Not Jon Adkins. Guys like Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee, whom Cleveland stole from the Expos for Colon. Guys like Bonderman, who the Tigers got from the As, I believe. Guys like Bonser, Liriano and Nathan, whom the Twins got for AJ. The pressure is on Kenny Stanford. Step up, Big Man. ........ You and I are soulmates. I'm sorry for anyone who believes the expectations set forth by some of us are too high. It's what's necessary to compete in this division. Ignore player development, while silmutaneously attempting to compete, and I'll EXPECT a legtimate victory in any trade. Preferably those in which we acquire top-notch talent, and not "coop projects" or those who were former first round picks and have failed to reach expectations. I just won't accpet "oh, how often do those trades happen." Too bad. Williams better not fail. For the sake of this team's future.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ May 30, 2007 -> 04:17 PM) If the Sox can stay within spitting distance...and they currently are...one never knows what could happen. 2005 Indians nearly catching the Sox. 2006 Twins catching the Tigers. Never ever count out the A's. I'm not saying, I'm just saying. From my perspective -- and I know others share it -- I absolutely hate the idea of reaching a moment of decision within "spitting distance." What does this mean? Is spitting distance to you 5 games, 7 games, 12 games? You have to be realistic from Williams perspective. Each year brings a different scenario. I don't give a f*** whether Cleveland came back in 2005 or Minnesota resurged last season. Both had a collection of talent which far exceeds ours. Here's the problem -- next month, there are only two divisional games; both against Kansas City. If the Sox are 7+ games out of the division lead and 5+ out with several teams to jump, we'll hear people suggest "there are plenty of divisional games left." While true, at which point (~June 30th) we should have a good idea where this team is going. Facing a weak National League will either pad our win total, bring us back into the race, or just expose this ballclub. There should be no middle ground. What's it mean to your if Williams doesn't make any midseason deals, we go to the end with the current team, and still fail to reach the postseason? The best you can hope for is a slew of compensation picks for Dye, Buehrle, Iguchi. And while that wouldn't be bad in itself, it doesn't help us for the next several seasons. Such a decision doesn't help us make up for the talent discrepancy between the White Sox and other ALC teams.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:41 PM) Yeah, they said they're not going to be sellers at the deadline. To be fair, Guillen said that; not Williams. Williams would be foolish to completely dismiss the possibility at this point.

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:15 PM) until we improve our drafting, player development and minor league system, we're going to struggle to be consistent. Ha, don't expect much consistency from any of those departments within the immediate future. At the least, this upcoming amateur draft will provide tangible evidence that methods for evaluating talent has changed. Have to begin somwhere, I suppose. Atleast you can say we'll have an easy time in Toronto. Oh, wait, we're facing Halladay and Burnett? Not good.

QUOTE(joeynach @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:05 PM) Walk, Botched Force Attempt, Botched Force Attempt, Walk....ballgame. Gotta love the way the twins win. I look at is as loving the way the White Sox lose. It's about time people realize this team just isn't very good. They'll hardly be a moment where all facets of the game -- from offense to bullpen to starting pitching -- collectively gels. Welcome to fourth place, Guillen. You may not find yourself above it for the remainder of the season. The possibility of unloading several players will only increase if series such as this continue.

Chat. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?autocom=chat

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 02:07 PM) This happens about twice a year vs the Twins. We'll jump out to a nice lead, they'll pull their pitcher, and then a couple of no name relievers for them will come in and shut us down. Meanwhile, our starting pitchers can't get a big out to save their life. In the past, it was relievers like Rincon, Guerrier, and Perkins who would shut us down. I guess we can add Miller to the list. Who would have guessed, another minor league callup from the Twins whom shut us down. It's becomes embarrassing when they continually do this to us.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...-ssep30.article This is exactly the type of nonsense we'll hear around this town if the Sox are seven games out of playoff contention come mid-late June. Guillen doesn't understand the nature of this division, much less his team of its minor league depth. I'm sure the media will act the same way. His methods of determing whether the Sox can compete are probably drastically different then, say, someone who is responsible for constructing a roster. And no, I don't expect Guillen to remain open to the idea of unloading current players at the trade deadline. But does he have to suggest calling Williams a loser if such a concept is brought up? I'm sure the media will be thirsting for a juicy quote from Guillen if certain players are traded midseason.

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ May 29, 2007 -> 11:21 PM) yankees or red sox will offer santana 10/250 twins won't come within 100 million of that total /end negotiations we're talking about the best pitcher in baseball, and maybe one of the very best of all time no way he stays in minneapolis, in my opinion I actually agree with Hitless -- I don't believe Santana's departure is as inevitable as many make it out to be. As discussed before, there's additional revenue to expect from their new ballpark. His salary could be backloaded over the last half of a contract. Additionally, their rotation and bullpen -- if supplied from within -- will be dirt cheap entering 2008. From a Twins perspective, it'd be interesting to recieve offers for Santana if he were shopped before next season. You're looking at atleast two of an organizations top prospects. I've envisioned a Kershaw/Elbert/additional piece swap with Los Angeles. And while it obviously doesn't compensate for a legitimate ace in Santana, you've just supplimented an already deep rotation with two #2 starters. It's literally freightening to imagine what they'll extract from other teams if trading Santana is actually considered. Even though I doubt such a scenario would unfold (esp. with Liriano), but it wouldn't shock me.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 30, 2007 -> 01:54 AM) At any rate, Gordon, Teahen, DeJesus, Butler, Hochevar, Costa, etc., are the future of the Royals. I don't think I'd make them a favorite over the White Sox for 08 and 09 until their starting pitching looks to be in better shape. Jorge De La Rosa is as far from a solid #2 starter as you can get in the big leagues. Add in Rick Porcello to the mix of potential starters. From all indications, he'll be the Royals first selection in the upcoming draft; and a good one at that.

Speaking of draft and follows, I've eagerly awaiting the news of whether MY GUY11!!! Matt Latos will accept San Diego's offer. I, for one, hope the White Sox have tampered with Latos. It'd be tremendous for our system if he rejected the Padres deal and was available at #25. http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=260&p=2&c=647504

Those responsible for selecting a player should be those representing our club. I'd rather have Duane Shaffer place himself in front of the cameras. Atleast have some accountability.

You can't tell me Gardenhire isn't thinking about retaliation here. Immediately he signaled for a lefthander out of the bullpen.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 29, 2007 -> 09:03 PM) If Liriano can return for the Twins next year, there's no way you can project the Sox higher than 4th place for the next few seasons. Even without Liriano they'll have Santana, Bonser, Garza, Slowey, Perkins/Baker/whomever. Add him into the equation and you'd be correct to assume 4th place is our destination.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ May 29, 2007 -> 08:50 PM) Lastings Milledge is a different story. I don't care if he isn't great character-wise, we need some f***ing talent infused into this organization. How much have the Mets soured on Pelfrey? Perhaps this would be an ideal situation to buy-low with him, in addition to Milledge. If Buehrle pitches well through the deadline perhaps he could be packaged with Milledge and, at the least, Deolis Guerra.

I'm probably going to offer the same suggestions others will of you -- albiet with less criticism and sarcsm. It's much too early to discuss an immediate fire sale. Whatever the future is with Greg Walker I could care less. It would serve more as a wakeup call than anything which will translate to victories. We're an average team, and that's probably how it's going to be all season. Most knew these last few seasons, with an average to medicore minor league system -- and more talented divisional opponents -- we were going to have a moment where the proverbial window shuts. This, unfortuntately, may be it. No use throwing everything away to save this season. Either we're losing or winning with what we have. Best advice I can give is wait several weeks. Because we are 50 games in, it's quite possible everything turns around. I doubt it, but who knows.

More than youth they need talent. It'd obviously be a bonus if they were young, but if anyone aside from three players could consistently hit; or two bullpen arms consistently throw strikes; we'd be better off. At this point, with this team, I don't believe we're going to be buyers come July. We may not be sellers either, depending upon our position and Williams' willingness to trade off several players. However, if we are sellers, then it'd be an obvious opportunity to search for the "young blood" you speak of. There just isn't many pieces available in the minor league system that you can expect an immediate improvement over what we have. Fields and/or Sweeney may provide additional offense, but not enough to overcome our problems.

I'd like to know one situation this year, or even last year, where everyone on base advanced on a foul out.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ May 29, 2007 -> 08:28 PM) The guy you are talking about Juan Boofzalez, is still undrafted in Venezuela. You're taking my angle. Oh, and time to update the sig!!!!!!!111

QUOTE(briguy27 @ May 29, 2007 -> 08:27 PM) morneau is awesome. u could throw him screw balls and he'll hit them all over that $*** dome if i got to pick any 5 players to start a team, morneau would be on that list. hes that damn good Anyone can hit a looping curveball. I believe Minnesota has proved that tonight.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 29, 2007 -> 08:17 PM) I missed the memo about our starting staff being the problem. The question you SHOULD be asking is where's our Pat Neshek or Matt Guerrier (although we originally drafted Guerrier, IIRC). There's no memo. I'm just wondering where our Boof Bonser is. Certaintly there's atleast one pitcher in the system who can match him. Right? I'm sorry, Danks is downright AWFUL tonight. Can't drop a curveball to save his life. This better be nothing but an aberration.