Flash Tizzle

The offense prostituted itself for Pineiro tonight. It lay itself down in front of a sellout crowd--again. Not since Kirk Sarloos have I seen more hanging breaking balls missed by our hitters. You have to honestly wonder if their approach was "Well, Pineiro has a 6+ ERA. Let's swing for the fences and pad our homerun totals!" Because the mediocre pitcher wearing the Seattle uniform was FAR from the dominant starter we've seen the last fear years. Anyone else notice his fastball rarely topped 91? I recall him consistently hitting 94. I always seem to mention this observation in threads where we're overwhelmed by a terrible pitcher. Again, it applies. Pineiro just didn't find himself at a 6 ERA because of one bad outting which skewed his numbers. This is a pitcher, who in his last 16 starts, had only won ONE f***ING GAME. Last 7 starts he has surrendered 4 earned runs in each outting. It's corpseball ridden games such as these I simply can't "forget about it and move on." The entire league is full of medicore pitchers. For a team aspiring to move deep into the playoffs, you need to battle against the average pitchers of the league and take your chances against the upper echelon. The approach this team takes to the Pineiro's of the world appears to comprise of pull-baseball interrupted with an occasional popup and GIDP.

Whomever said it before is correct: Crede makes the most untimely errors on this ballclub. Someone with the means needs to find out of all his errors, how many led to a run. I'm estimating it has to be fairly high. I'm not overly critical of Crede, because his defense is stellar; but he sure bobbles/ overthrow baseballs at the worst moments.

I'm defending Mariotti here. In Jackson's world, which may still be hovering around 1967, every black person criticized for their work must be racist. Forget Dusty's mismanagement of his starting rotation and clubhouse. Or possibly his odd behavior in press conferences or stubborness in relation to sticking with veteran players too long. Scoop is simply substituting for Jesse Jackson in distributing the race card. It's ridiculous. I'd like to say more, but I'd only be labeled a racist for hating on a brutha.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Aug 2, 2005 -> 09:27 PM) Begs the question: How the hell would anyone know what he tested positive for? Unless the Palmero camp came out and said what it was, I don't understand how that information would become public. ESPN articles indicates a 'source' disclosed the steroid. Safe to assume someone leaked the information. Palmeiro really f***ed the pooch here. If it were up to me, he wouldn't even be in the discussion for HOF. Someone needs to be made an example of. However, I know baseball wouldn't dare take a stance such as mine. Only lenience I'd give him is if he openly admitted to steroid use. No more bulls*** with pointing your finger or defiantly saying "NEVER" and "PERIOD" a few times during a speech. Fess up, be a man, and take your punishment.

So, when exactly will Adkins be called upon to pitch? Apparently not in 7 run leads or 4 run deficits late in games. Don't understand wasting him in this situation. It's important to hold the BlueJays to 7 runs, but I'd rather give Adkins atleast one inning (two if he's doing well) to spell our valuable relievers.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 2, 2005 -> 07:24 PM) Towers isn't exactly a strikeout pitcher. And he's not exactly a quality pitcher either. It's terrible when you return from a promising roadtrip (atleast in Baltimore) only to be dominated by Josh "floating sinker" Towers. His numbers, similar to those of any scrub pitcher which shut us down, is not the result of one, deceiving outting. He's just that bad.

QUOTE(heirdog @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 11:09 AM) just for fun... 3-time world champion Whitesox in 2009: SS: Robert Valido (untouchable) 2B: Chris Getz RF: Ryan Sweeney CF: Chris Young (untouchable) LF: Brian Anderson (untouchable) DH: Aaron Rowand 1B: Thomas Collaro 3B: Josh Fields C: Donald Lucy Bench: Jerry Owens (OF), Casey Rogowski (1B/DH), Carlos Lee ( C), Angel Gonzales (IF), Micah Schnurstein (IF) SP: Mark Buehrle SP: Jon Garland SP: Brandon McCarthy (untouchable) SP: Gio Gonzalez (untouchable) SP: Lance Broadway CL: Bobby Jenks (untouchable) SU: Sean Tracey RP: Ray Liotta RP: Kris Honel RP: Neal Cotts RP: Felix Diaz Not going to project any free agent signings? If we even have half these players on the club there would be well over 40 million remaining on our budget.

If I'm voting for Palmeiro's induction in the HOF he wouldn't be admitted. There needs to be a clear stance on this steroid issue. Sure, Bonds/McGuire/Sheffield/Giambi are probable steroid users, but they've yet to test positive under any MLB administered program. Can only work with those who've been caught. His guady numbers (500 HR/3000 hits) are now in question with his positive results. How can anyone be sure which statistics were legitimate and those which may have been aided by steroids? You can't. Although a Palmeiro apologist may suggest that's why you can't fault him. But IMO, you can't give him any lienency. There has to be a point where we quick dicking around with speculating on "when/how much did he take it" or whether "the steroid testing doesn't erase his career achievements." Yes, it does. Admit it. Now to tackle the excuses we're all bound to hear. 1. I won't, and hope many of you share similar feelings, believe Palmeiro ONLY used steroids after the congressional hearings. 2. I won't believe Palmeiro accidentally ingested an illegal substance. For a player due to be under added scrutiny, you'd have to be one dumb bastard to believe you'd get away with it. Even Sosa's excuse of mishandling his bats is more believeable than this bulls***. BUT "The hearings and the proximity to end of his career only proves he didn't do it. Why would he risk it!!!" I would like to know why not. Buehlre hitting Surhof today was perfect because it didn't make much sense. 2 outs, 1 on base in a one-run game, Buehlre could proclaim his innocence because, "why would he want to put more on base in a close game." Palmeiro may have thought his stance on steroids gave him immunity. Or he used a steroid not listed as a banned substance and thought the system could be beaten. OR he tested earlier in the season and MLB held out the notice until his achievements were met. He cheated, regardless, and should be punished. A quote from Robert DeNiro in "Casino" applies to this issue and sums up my thoughts: "Listen, if you didn't know you're [cheating], you're too f***in' dumb to keep this job. If you did know, you were in on it. Either way, you're out!"

QUOTE(Antonio Osuna @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 04:53 PM) We had home field in 2000 too. The only statistic we need to worry about is how many games back Oakland is of the WC. Because if they win it, it's game-over for us. We have to stop conceeding series against Team Moneyball. If we believe Oakland is due to defeat us in a possible first round matchup, it's only going to come to fruition. I'm not going to accept some supposed jinx against their club. How many times against Oakland has the team beat themselves due to errors, baserunning goofs, bloop-hits galore, or one pivotal play which goes against us? Nothing would satisfy me more than defeating Oakland. Unfortunately, there may be certain Beane supporters who woudn't mind Oakland advancing into the playoffs because of their need to validate a certain persons philosophy. I'll admit right now I don't want them anywhere near the playoffs. But this is due to the Beane slurping which I'd have to deal with. I never had a problem with Beane or Oakland until the Koch/Foulke trade. Beane disciples fuel my hatred every day which passes.

QUOTE(Benchwarmerjim @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 02:29 PM) Broken ankle out for the year :cry: This is about where the Twins organization promotes a AA player with an odd name who hits .500 over the remainder of the season in Hunters absence.

What's even more amazing than Palmiero taking steroids is Jose Canseco was on top of this. We all ignored him in the past when he alleged certain players injecting steroids, but suddenly, his credibility on this issue isn't so far fetched.

QUOTE(robinventura23 @ Jul 31, 2005 -> 02:19 PM) I honestly can't complain. We needed a versatile bat on the bench. It was a tough market KW did the best he could. Offense still inconsistent? Last I checked, yes. Bullpen still void one more quality arm? Yes. He did his job last offseason season and for that I applaud his work. But Williams failed. We need to stop treating him like a five year old child by complimenting him for simply trying. My reason for criticizing Williams is simple: our team, as assembled, may be one of the best in franchise history. Our record would certaintly suggest that. However, it's obvious we're void one quality bat and one contributing arm in the bullpen. Neither move would guarantee us a World Series championship--nothing does. But no one can suggest to me this team, as currently standing, was not in need of improvement. If KW felt it necessary to give up more than necessary in the past, why is it any different the one year a postseason birth is almost guaranteed? It's obvious the market is weak, general managers are attempting their Jim Hendry rape proposals. But it's also obvious more than previous years this current club is expected to advance far into the playoffs. I doubt an abundance of talent would have been needed to pry Guardado from Seattle. Huff, while possible to acquire, may have been more difficult. Trade Andersen. Trade McCarthy. It doesn't, and shouldn't have, mattered at this juncture. I'm disappointed in Williams. You all can continue to pad his ass, but as I've said before, this team collapses or finds itself one-and-done in the playoffs it's all coming back to this point in the trading deadline where KW sat on his hands. And don't think otherwise, because it will.

QUOTE(ceffa2000 @ Jul 29, 2005 -> 04:12 PM) Moronatti: If KW doesn't make a move for a hitter now, the White Sox are done. Let's just say this: Sox needed a bat before the extent of Thomas' injury was known. You can't just expect our offense to carry itself far into the playoffs as it currently stands.

QUOTE(Wong & Owens @ Jul 29, 2005 -> 01:03 PM) Oakland-- Yes, they're on a roll, and yes, their pitching looks scary again, but remember, these starters are all very young, and their closer isn't even old enough to drink. Does anyone really think this staff can make it through an October pressure-cooker? And here's another thing--are there any black guys on this team? You can't win with no black guys, this isn't 1912. I DID notice upon our first meeting there's an abundance of scrub looking white guys in Oakland. This is direct proof the moneyball philosophy, and by extension Billy Beane, is racist. African Americans and Latin's don't get out of their neighborhoods taking walks!

I haven't browsed through this entire thread, so if this has been discussed I apologize. But why exactly did the White Sox release this information TWO DAYS before the trade dealine? Doesn't anyone realize this makes our need of acquiring another bat more difficult? I notice Bruce Levine broke the news on AM 1000. Whomever told him this should have waited. It's obvious we're pressing for a bat now if it wasn't prior to Frank's injury.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 28, 2005 -> 03:00 PM) Your point is stupid then. Saying a player sucks shows a lack of class regardless if it's done once, or 50 times.. for 2 minutes or 30. I don't see how it's stupid now. The alloted time spent critizing Hawkins is exactly the issue at hand here. It wasn't simply loud booing, as was expected, but continued heckling for the entire inning. Both circumstances involved booing former players, yes; but the difference between them should be noted.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2005 -> 06:48 AM) Have you seen what teams are asking for their players? We aren't JUST talking about minor leaguers like in years past, we are talking about 2-3 players off of our 25 man roster. We would actually be openning more holes than we were filling in these deals. How can anyone justify adding holes to the roster of the best team in baseball? That is what I don't understand. I don't believe we're the best team in baseball. This is the problem of perception regarding this club. Ridiculous demands are common place near the trading deadline. How has this year be any different from past season? It's always the same cycle: several teams bidding for a player, team with coveted player asks for a s***load of talent, deal rejected--several occasions, demands are lowered, negotiations resume. Now, if creating a move just for the sake of one adds more holes to our team, I wouldn't approve it. If we have to trade 2-3 players for one player in return, certaintly it should be for a quality, immediate impact player. And of these three, two better be named Timo/Harris. If Olivo/Morse/Reed nets you Garcia, how much could a possible rental Burnett (in a swing deal for Wagner) possible cost? Or Overbay?

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Jul 28, 2005 -> 02:40 AM) Exactly. I hope people around here realize that if nothing does go down. But, of course, will probably have 15 "Kenny is a s***ty gm" threads come Sunday instead. It's his job to improve this ballclub. I won't feel sorry or simply credit Williams for trying. Before this season began, members were suggesting if Williams failed to sign certain players we could always trade for appropriate pieces around the deadline. Well, now that we're 11 games ahead of the Twins and preparing ourselves for October baseball, some are conceeding a quiet trade front for our Sox? I won't post a "Kenny is a s***ty gm" thread, but I'll contribute. You can't just sit still with this team. It's that simple. I'm fully aware any significant move will cost us several prized prospects. But at this juncture, you have to ask yourself if several players may be expendable for this particular team. Despite our position in the standings, many here realize this team is far from a lock for World Series contention. As I stated in the previous post, Williams will have to answer the sames questions again in October if this team falls flat in the first round: "Mr. Williams, do you regret not making any significant move at the trading dealine to improve your bullpen, offense?" He'll answer accordingly and sight the same reasons you people have alluded to: weak market, greedy GM's, faith in current lineup.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 27, 2005 -> 10:12 PM) I don't think anyone could be pissed at KW, no matter what. The guy pulled this team out of his ass, and it's a huge success. I will, however, be pissed at the situation. I won't blame KW, Ozzie, JR, etc. There will be no one to blame, but I'll still be pissed off. What's exactly the situation you're refering to? Is it that there's limited players on the market worthy of trading prospects/positional player, or the possibility of Williams standing pat with our current roster? You can't always be fortunate enough to hold the best record in franchise history during a relatively weak trading market. I expect Williams to make some move, whatever it may be, because this team has not convinced me it is built to contend for a World Series. Takes two to tango, yes. But it's his job to lure potential partners. He better make a move, or else the finger is pointed at him in October if this club fails to advance far into the playoffs. How can Williams justify to fans not doing ANYTHING to strengthen this team? He can't. And I'm sure he realizes this.

QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Jul 27, 2005 -> 04:38 PM) worst game of the year, with no bullpen left for baltimore We've been saying that a few times recently. Between today's game, last Thursday's opener against Boston, or Lima's dominance yesterday, there's been some terrible baseball played by the Sox.

Someone choked.

THE HELL WAS THAT?! Rowand had a terrible read on a that ball. Bases loaded 0 outs. Everyone, just prepare yourselves for a loss.

No way Vizcaino escapes this inning. Pitiful game played all around.

With the shadows creeping over homeplate, and the inconsistent nature of our offense, this game could go into the 20th. If it does happen to go beyond the 14th, we're in trouble. Who's pitching?

PA Announcer at Kauffman just announced our "protest" over the system. Anyone happen to know the reasoning for this?