Flash Tizzle

Alright, I know what's going to happen in this thread. Members (like YASNY) will list their examples of a team under the 'illusion of contention', only to come back strong in the second half. Or someone else will attack the credibility of the author. I'm not trying to personally insult you YANSY, I just feel we ignore the problems by listing clubs who overcame their deficit in the standings. Why, instead of hoping we're in contention come July, management does it job and fills roster holes before April? I can't be the only one who is tired of praying this team competes, so Williams can patch a hole HE ignored in the offseason. Last two years the lack of a fifth starter has killed our club. If this problem isn't corrected we will find ourselves five games out, again.

YES. I've argued these points in another Randy Johnson thread. We have to understand some players may not want to join this organization. Mediocrity is not a selling point, and neither is the weakness of this division. When the choices are between the White Sox, Angels, Cardinals, and Yankees we should be at the bottom. /Shawn Chacon is still available.

Jim Gray was noticeably shaken during his assessment of the brawl. IMO, ESPN is essentially blaming an innocent man. The network should be in no position to judge the person responsible unless there's undeniable proof. What's worse is ESPN arrows the man in the white hat, but fails to mention the possibility Artest attacked an innocent fan. Why is that?

Artest's unpredictable, unstable personality only fuels this debate. Would Karl Malone or David Robinson have jumped into the crowd in a similar situation?

Didn't notice that. Watching daddy pummel on NBA players is bound to emotionally scar the kid.

You can't determine the severity of a suspension due to your reaction in the situation. There have been prior examples of harsh suspensions in less extreme circumstances. EDIT: Quoted wrong post. Point remains.

Sportscenter analyzed the film as it if were viewing the Kennedy Assassination. They were showing emotional clips of an old lady under a pile of Pacers, as well as some young kid crying. NBA doesn't need this. :headshake

This picture is deserving of a "OWNED" title if I've ever seen one.

Does a scuffle between players give anyone the justification to attack a fan? What matters is Artest overreacted and physically attacked an innocent person. I'm sure he's not the first basketball player in NBA history to have a cup of beer thrown on him.

You are honestly comparing basketball to "heat of battle?" I understand the passion these players have, but Artest won't persuade many of his innocense. Artest was fuming, and he simply exploded because a plastic cup landed on him. I don't recall Rocco Baldelli jumping into the stands when Sox fans drenched him in beer.

ESPN Basketball crew has suggested the NBA install nets between the floor and court, and removal of courtside seats. Was Wrigley Field under this much scrutiny following their brawl?

Steven A. Smith is attempting to rationalize this incident and protect the NBA. It's pathetic. I wish someone can throw beer on this idiot. "These basketball players are PROTECTING themselves." Plastic cups have sharp edges these days, you know.

This guy was enormous. Comcast SportsNet claimed the man "looked like a Detroit Lion."

Artest better have himself a great laywer.

I was wrong in this instance. Jackson was the name of the Indiana player who slugged a fan near Artest.

Last year at USCF, when a fan in the outfield poured beer on Rocco Baldelli, was he justified to jump over the wall? No. We're going to here basketball players agree with Artests' actions, but it certaintly was overblown and unneccessary.

Man in the black coat appeared to throw beer on Artest once he was pouncing on the fan. Not worthy of a knock out punch. I smell a HUGE lawsuit.

You can almost pinpoint the transformation from joy to pure FEAR. Jermaine O'Neal was drenched with beer and coke wakling into the locker area. AND HE WAS ATTEMPTING TO RUN BACK OUT!

He can't escape all criticism in this incident. The fan who started this brawl in the stands posed no immediate danger to Artest. A responsible player might have simply pointed the fan out to security, instead of going crazy.

I'm sorry, Artest overreacted. While the fight was going on, ESPN announcers were acting as if the fan threw a glass bottle from two feet away. Replays showed a PLASTIC CUP of beer landing on Artest from a distance of atleast 10 feet. In no way was his life threatened. Quit that "self defense" angle right now because jumping into the stands is not justifiable. The drunk fan deserves to be arrested, no doubt, but I'm changing my stance on this situation.

Wow. There was an enormous black guy who landed a few hay makers on an Indiana player. These fans we're showing absolutely NO mercy on these players. If security did their job, atleast 5 fans should currently be under arrest. I'm calling it right now: Mariotti jumps over this incident and references the numerous fan incidents at USCF, while Tribune ignores all similarities between this and their fan-brawl 6 years ago.

Or, instead of pushing the White Sox over the top, he can join the Yankees/Angels/Cardinals and join legitimate contenders. There's a chance Johnson may have the competitive urge to dominate weak ALC opponents, but we're talking about a pitcher who wants the BEST opportunity to win. Kool Aid aside, nothing (besides mediocrity) is guaranteed year-to-year with the White Sox. Besides, all accounts indicate a combination of Garland-Konerko would be used to acquire Johnson. Who is traded for Kendall if Pittsburgh had expressed interest with both players?

Anthrax.......lemme tell you somethin' Over my two year period of browsing Soxtalk (and WSI) I've witnessed countless fights break out over Williams effectiveness. Both sides are compromised of people unwilling to switch their positions. If you were to judge Williams by trades/signings, he'd split votes directly down the middle. What irks me the most is his attitude as general manager; specifically the moronic comments he's said within the media. Yes, he may wear his "heart on his sleave," but sometimes its as if his ego takes control of him. I don't trust a person of this character deciding who's the best fit for his club. I've been patient with Williams for 4 years. If he fails to reach the offseason next year, there should be NO doubt of his dismissal as general manager. No one can convince me otherwise.

I've made no attempt to mask my hatred for Williams on this website--but signing Vlad to an extended contract, BEFORE Magg's knee injury surfaced would have been ridiculous. Last offseason our OF was not a priority with the corners occupied by Maggs/Lee. Rowand was a question, but you don't fork over 15 million for Vlad to roam CF.

Is "Bill" Bill from the NW Side? The same fan who would make a conscious effort to call Dave Wills following every loss? Love that guy. If I'm not mistaken he felt the season was over sometime in June - and made sure to gloat once Sox were eliminated. I recall several post game shows where Willsy would call him out for avoiding the show following wins. He did, however, embody the 'b****y' fan which JimH is describing.