Lip Man 1

Balta: By the way have you seen what Frankie Montas has been doing this year for the A's?

Well they won't get swept. Nice game all around except for Vieria.

Part of it was because Rooney wanted to go back to St. Louis, part of it was because the radio station wasn't willing to meet his salary demands.

I have to agree with Balta myself. I see very little in the system that inspires confidence. Or as I have put in in the past, a bunch of "retreads, no-name's, has-been's, cast-off's..." Basically four A stuff. Burdi is about the only one who I think can make an impact. The rest are all flotsam and jetsam.

Maybe constantly being on a losing, disorganized team was getting to him?

True although they ran him out there constantly trying to salvage what they could and it costs them games. I guess my point is they don't do it regularly and it takes an extreme situation for them to go that route. Maybe it will happen with Alonso but at this point I have my doubts...Ricky remember continues to bat him fourth even though he's hurting the team. They keep trying to salvage some face with his trade / salary.

I may have forgotten them but can you give me examples. Did they cut Dunn? LaRoche? Keppinger? et al. Not trying to be snarky just can't think of anybody off the top of my head save for Santana and they only owed him peanuts.

Dunning is coming off TJ and is a starter as is Hansen. Covey is a four A player, nothing more nothing less. Burdi also coming off TJ surgery is a complete unknown at this point.

I assume you mean a combined 65 million. The way you wrote it seems to indicate giving one player a 65 million dollar a year deal. But over and above that, it takes two to tango. Said players have to want to take the Sox offer and unless they overpay or show significant progress this season that may be a hard sell.

I'd be willing to take a wager on that statement. These are the White Sox remember. He may, MAY be traded but he won't be released with the Sox on the hook for nine million.

Not at all. My point is the Sox should try to be better than "average." One thing I always admired about Rocky Wirtz was when he took over he clearly and categorically stated the goal was to win Stanley Cup's. I respected that and I'm sure after the debacle that was Bill Wirtz Hawk fans were pleased to hear that. When you say, "well with work (one of the top prospects in baseball) he can be an average fielder" that sends the wrong message, that's lowering the bar, that's settling. That "attitude" is part of the reason this franchise is where it is at, it starts with the owner and permeates right down the line.

Loved the headline in the Sun-Times today where Ricky said that with a lot of work and time Eloy can become an "average" outfielder. LOL. Just what Sox fans hope the team / players / organization aspire to..."average." Way to inspire the troops Ricky! This clown needs to be sent packing along with half the guys on this roster.

And remember Hahn publicly said defense was going to be emphasized in spring training this year. LOL...right. Sox had zero chance tonight, nada. Verlander made them look like a Little League team. Moncada with the "Golden Sombrero" and Eloy looks completely lost now both in the field and at the plate. And Covey was....well Covey.

On who? Have you seen what that class looks like now with all the resignings?

What's even more of an indictment of the organization is that the manager Robin Ventura let this crap go on without doing a damn thing apparently.

"Minnie" had to deal with everything Jackie Robinson had to deal with including the fact that unlike Jackie, he spoke no English when he came to the states. Every Latin player of that generation growing up including Cepeda, Clemente and Tony Perez wanted to be like him. In fact Tony specifically talked about "Minnie" in his Hall of Fame induction speech.

Can Ricky be this "baseball-stupid" or is he simply being bullheaded because he hears what the fans are saying about this. Seriously this is just insane.

The Chicago Baseball Museum (for which I write) has worked tirelessly to get "Minnie" and Billy Pierce in. Both are very deserving if you simply go by the numbers themselves. Now add in their popularity and how they represented the sport and it is a damn shame, if they do get in, it will be after they have passed away. I don't know how much "influence" JR has anymore myself by the way regarding MLB issues. He's no longer on any committee's. If he did work to get Harold in I can understand it, he played for JR, JR knows him very well. Here is the link to the story I did on Billy's credentials: https://chicagobaseballmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/CBM-Golden-Era-Liptak-Pierce-20141121.pdf And here is the one for "Minnie" Minoso: https://chicagobaseballmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/CBM-HOF-Minnie-Minoso-20141205.pdf

What did you expect, they are taking on the "big boys" now. Fry by the way has been awful this season. And I'm beginning to wonder a bit about Eloy. For all the build up, the 'second coming" talk I expected a little more than a .229 batting average with three home runs, granted he's missed 21 games but even before that he looked over matched a lot at the plate and his defensive shortcomings speak for themselves. Given the White Sox "development history" over the last decade or so you always have that question in the back of your mind.

Kenny always gets his man!

I hope you're right but I'll have to see it to believe it that the Sox will eat nine million bucks.

Gary appeared in a few games for the Sox in 1959, 1960 and 1961. He was in the minor leagues (along with Joel Horlen) for six years before getting his real chance. That was back when players actually learned how to play the game and weren't rushed up to the bigs after a year or so in the minor leagues. And Gary almost didn't even get his shot in 1963 but for an illness to Juan Pizarro as he told me when I interviewed him: ML: You finally got your first major league win on May 6, 1963 when you beat the Kansas City A’s 5-1.Not only did you get the win but you hit your first career home run. What do you remember about that game? GP: "I remember it was a few days before cut down day. In those days teams had until early May to keep some extra guys on the roster, then they had to keep them or let them go. I hadn’t been pitching much and thought the Sox were going to cut me. We were on the plane headed to Kansas City when Ray Berres walked back to where I was at. At first I thought he was coming to tell me the Sox decided to let me go, instead he tells me that Juan Pizarro who was supposed to pitch, had the flu and that I had the ball. I was happy to get the chance! I know I pitched pretty well and that Jim Brosnan finished it up for me. It was the first of 11 straight wins for me. Ewing Kauffman, who later owned the Kansas City Royals, told me that if the Sox did let me go, the A’s were going to pick me up." (Author’s Note: Most baseball fans know that Jim Bouton wrote "Ball Four" detailing his 1969 season with the Seattle Pilots but many fans don’t realize that Brosnan was actually the first baseball author. His book "The Long Season" detailed his time with the Cincinnati Reds in 1959. It was the first time a book had actually taken the average fan inside a baseball clubhouse and talked about what really happened in a game and a season. It’s a great read if you can find the book which is now out of print. He then followed it up with “Pennant Race” looking at the Reds 1961 National League championship year.) "I also remember hitting the home run off of Ted Bowsfield. He hung a curve to me. I was serious about my hitting and always took batting practice whenever I could." ML: It was a sign of things to come for you. You talk about making an impact! In 63’ you won the Rookie of the Year award with 19 wins, an outstanding ERA of 2.33 and with 189 strike outs. How did you get so much success so early? GP: "It was because of the years that I spent in the minor leagues. I worked hard, played a lot of winter ball. It all came together when my mechanics were correct. It became ingrained in me so I didn’t have to think about it, I could just pitch. My ball was sinking; my slider was fast and had a hard break now."

To be fair to Bill he honestly felt that without more power the Sox would not be able to repeat. He originally targeted young sluggers like Orlando Cepeda and Bill White. When San Francisco and St. Louis wouldn't trade with him he fell back on acquiring players like "Minnie" Minoso, Roy Sievers and Gene Freese. Ironically those guys all had terrific seasons for the Sox, what hurt them was the established guys like Aparicio, Fox, Landis, Wynn and Lollar who had off years compared to the previous seasons. And even with the regression they still won 87 games and were 20 over .500. But yes, having any combination of Cash, Romano, Callison (who the Sox tried to reacquire before the 1962 season), Mincher or Battey and the Sox probably win pennants in 1964 and 1967.

DeBusschere wasn't part of that situation. April 8, 1963 – On this date, one of the biggest ‘what if’s’ in franchise history took place. As per the rules at the time, the White Sox had to choose between two pitchers signed to ‘bonus baby’ contracts. The rules stated that only one player signed to a deal for over a certain amount of money could remain in the organization. The other would have to be waived. With that in mind rookies Bruce Howard and Denny McLain squared off in an intra-squad game to see who would be released and who got promoted to Double A Lynchburg. Howard won 2-1. McLain got his walking papers and was claimed by Detroit the following week. He’d go on to win 131 big league games including 31 in 1968. And here is from my interview with Sox announcer Milo Hamilton: ML: One of the oddities about that season took place in spring training on April 8 when two youngsters, Bruce Howard and Denny McLain had a ‘pitch-off’ to determine who would stay in the organization and get promoted to Double-A. Do you remember anything about that game or about McLain in general when he was with the White Sox. (Author’s Note: Howard would win the game 2-1 and get promoted to Lynchburg, Virginia. Because of baseball rules at the time concerning bonus babies, McLain had to be released. He was claimed by the Tigers a week later.) MH: “Well the pitch-off was only part of the reason the Sox let him go. He was a cocky kid. His high school used to get tickets to Sox games and I can still remember him sitting by the dugout yelling “I can beat those guys.” He was hard to handle and his attitude was something that Al Lopez (Author’s Note: White Sox manager) and the organization just wasn’t going to put up with. In spring training he ran up a 700 hundred dollar phone bill talking to his girlfriend and he refused to pay it.” “Howard was a clean cut kid. Never gave anyone any trouble. Unfortunately he didn’t turn out to be much of a pitcher and in that respect you have to give McLain his due, he turned into a great pitcher. I mean he won 30 games one season.”

Again the White Sox "philosophy" stemming from JR is they will not pay someone to not work...even if they are terrible at it. They just don't seem to grasp that fundamental issue that you brought up about "sunk costs." The reason they dropped Santana was because they weren't on the hook for the 4.3 million based on the deal he signed.