steveno89

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:30 AM) Basabe mentioned here. http://m.mlb.com/news/article/212224800/10...uccess-in-2017/ I was hoping for Devers, but figured Boston would not want to overpay that much. I'm not sure I'd put Basabe in the top #100 prospects just yet due to his fringe average hit tool. He was young for his minor league level in 2016, and he could break out in 2017 if he continues to improve. A .780 OPS at 19 years old is reasonably impressive against older competition. If he develops into a legitimate top #100 prospect it makes the Sale deal look even better. I did say at the time Basabe is far more than just a throw in piece.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:58 PM) Oof! That Angels farm is bad. They have a few prospects I'd consider trading Avi for. What a horrible time to be an Angels fan outside of Trout That team's future is seriously in question. Right now they are on track for a rough next 5 years

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:59 PM) But, even there, their budget was stretched by EE and a series of pitching injuries...two starters and Miller, for example...would have the Sox right there in 2018 and definitely 19 if the plan is executed. We already saw it with KC hitting $148 million, despite their two year trend coming into last year. That CLE market, with the second worst media rights deal, seriously hampers them. And most hitters this past decade like EE just lose it fast in their mid 30's. 2017 is the only guaranteed terrible year. Perhaps, but I'd side with being realistic that 2017 and likely 2018 are lost seasons. A 2017 rotation (assuming Q is dealt) of: 1) Rodon 2) Gonzalez 3) Shields 4) Holland 5) Covey/who knows? We may or may not get contributions from Giolito/Lopez/Burdi/Fulmer/Etc. in 2017. 2018 is still a question mark as we have loads of holes to fill (catcher, DH, OF spots, 2B, 3B, bullpen?)

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:56 PM) See that's the funny part. Two months ago, this front office should have been fired, and never allowed to work again. People were hoping the owner of this team would die, so that someone else could own the team. The same people who are posting gigantic lists of failed players now somehow believe that this same front office can't be questioned unless you have your own fully detailed plan in place to counter it with. The same people that brought us Rollins, Jackson, Latos et al are still the same people in charge. But now I have people telling me that I should not be allowed to question them, otherwise I might hurt somebody's feelings because they won't believe in the rebuild anymore. Literally nothing at the top has changed, but now they can't be questioned, even when fans have unrealistic expectations. Seriously I feel like I have walked into a Scientology convention. We scrutinize the front office all the time for their decision making. All signs pointed towards Hahn wanting to start the rebuild even sooner than we did. Sox fans are happy the team has finally chosen a direction, instead of trying to catch lightning in a bottle season after season. With a depleted minor league system, there was not much optimism for contending the next few seasons. Now our future appears to be on the right track, although it will take a ton more scouting, drafting, trades, free agency signings, player development, etc to get where we need to be

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:48 PM) Someone please answer this.... Other than the Indians, nobody in the AL Central is well-positioned at all for 2018-20 so the overall loss totals won't come as easily as expected after this season unless the first wave has/had an 80% bust rate. Minnesota would have to see incredible turnarounds from Buxton/Berrios/Sano and they still will have to dump Dozier, for example. What team in the Central is better positioned...? To me, it's a no brainer that the Sox have jumped to second with their reboot, with KC and Detroit stuck and Minnesota perpetually unwilling to spend. What other course was realistic or possible coming into this free agent market? There just aren't many plausible scenarios. Three, we have no choice but to hit this right by 2019 or Hahn/KW will be gone and the team will likely be sold if the media rights deal is a bust. Otoh, with a Trump presidency...the business climate/expectations have increased tremendously, whether I agree with him or not politically. Either way, it's positive one way or the other. The White Sox doomsday scenario of abandoning Chicago feels much less likely today than half a year ago. 80-85% of this board is ready for a new/fresh ownership voice. JR's day came and went to control the sport with Selig. Having spent the better part of eight years being critical...it's a relief to see a light at the end of the tunnel, finally. The Twins minor league system is not in awful shape moving forward, but they are not a sure bet to improve (neither are we). Kansas City appears to be exiting its window of contention, Detroit is also exiting its window. Cleveland is in great shape for the future and will be the hill we need to climb.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) It would have to be a 5 year gut rebuild to even have a chance of working and punting the prime of Trout's prime is criminal. They cant trade a player like him either. Their best bet is to try and find 1 or 2 starters from the minors and go hog wild the next two years in free agency. That could be a recipe for even further disaster, overpaying past their prime players. Trading Trout would be a tough pill to swallow, but it might be necessary for the good of the franchise. Not sure which team would have enough to trade for him though?

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:38 PM) They have 0 parts to move outside of Trout. Calhoun, maybe. Richards, coming off TJ. Simmons, how much are teams gonna pay for defense like they did? They don't have much of a team at all. Trout is keeping them relevant. That team is a mess right now. The Pujols contract will become a disaster as he continues to decline. No way they are able to move that unless they eat a huge chunk of money.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:27 PM) Angels I just assumed could not pay but hell, they could make a trade work. Their farm was so reminiscent of ours 4-5 years ago where their top 5 are just their most recent draft picks. But Taylor ward is interesting. Man that Angels farm system is in bad shape. That is one team that should seriously consider a rebuild.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:25 PM) Not surprising. Turns out just about everyone is finding that acquiring players like Moncada, Giolito, Kopech and Lopez is far more exciting than the acquisitions you lauded as "surreal" back in February/March, those of Rollins, Jackson, Latos, et al. We essentially had to rebuild If we did not we would have wasted a prime opportunity to deal players like Sale, Eaton and Quintana (possibly) for considerable returns to jump start the rebuild. A few more seasons of solid drafting, shrewd signings/trades and we set ourselves up to have a much brighter future. Not rebuilding, signing players like Encarnacion and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle would be very foolish. We had a bottom 5 farm system and our future looked shaky prior to the start of the rebuild.

QUOTE (chisox802 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:41 AM) I tend to be optimistic, and will probably get torn apart for suggesting this. I think this is going to be a quick rebuild. We will be bad in 2017 obviously, but 2018 we will be competitive (75 win team). Some of these guys are not far from the majors. Obviously lets let the rest of the offseason play out, but I could definitely see this team competing in 2019. Lastly, this is not anything new, but my friend works for the sox (in a lower role) and said that the pirates are a definite possibility for Q. Seems like Cutch could be holdings things up for the bucs. A 75 win team is not considered competitive at all That puts you at least 12-15 wins away from contention

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:30 AM) A guy with #4 or #5 potential should not be the headliner in a deal for Q. End of story. I said his floor is likely a #4 or 5 starter due to his excellent control. He only walked 19 batter in 130 minor league innings this season His ceiling is probably a #2 starting pitcher, one with plus control and a solid WHIP. Keller is the "safer" of the two prospects, he has had some injury history, but nothing I would worry too much about. Glasnow has the higher ceiling for sure, and his power stuff is tantalizing. He really needs to cut down on the walks though, as more patient mlb hitters will use his wildness to their advantage. Think alot of 10+ strikeout games, but also alot of 6+ walk games...which will lead to very mixed results.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:11 AM) I still think the Pirates get it done with a Meadows + Bell/Keller/Glasnow + a low level arm or two package. If the Sox want Bell they'd probably have to throw Frazier into the deal, but that also probably adds a better of cadre of prospects after the two headliners. Pirates have tanked the market for McCutchen by being so desperate to sell him that its about time for them to realize they never should've shopped him to begin with. Pirates have two years of prime-time baseball and with some favorable contracts long-term and a farm system that still has some muscle with a strong org to recoup what was dealt in the next couple seasons. Huntington is a good GM and I'm sure they like him, he can convince Nutting to expand the payroll a little bit to add a big piece. Meadows is a big sticking point for the Pirates. He is firmly part of their future, and I feel like he is pretty much considered untouchable by the Pirates front office. If he were on the table a deal would likely have been made by now. I don't see them moving Bell, he is expected to be a big contributor to the 2017 team. Trading him is addition by subtraction. Glasnow is a boom or bust prospect. If he can fix his control he could be an ace. If he can't cut down his walks it will be his downfall. Keller is a rising prospect with good control. He does not have the ceiling of Glasnow, but his floor might be a #4 or #5 starter given his plus control. The Pirates are likely offering: Pick one of Glasnow or Keller + Newman + Hayes/Tucker/Craig + a flyer White Sox likely believe that is not enough

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:05 AM) Torres should be the top player coming back in any Q deal with the Yankees. I just have this feeling that the Rockies could end up being a player for Quintana, Robertson or Jones They want to compete, but badly need pitching help. They had a bottom 5 rotation and bullpen in 2016 that will continue to hold them back unless they make some big additions. A packaged including Brendan Rodgers as a headliner would be very attractive

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:56 AM) Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 51m51 minutes ago MLB Roundup. http://bit.ly/2hwo9A2 Why the White Sox are in a dominant position in the Jose Quintana trade talks. News/notes/links. http://dynastydigest.sportsblog.com/posts/...sis--1-10-.html Reading this midseason top 10 baseball prospects article makes me really happy about Moncada and Giolito's potential. Giolito had his struggles, but a fresh start in 2017 should allow him to move closer to reaching his potential.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:42 AM) I agree with this timeline. The White Sox are being very specific for the sort of talent that they want in return for their blue chip trade pieces. The trend is that the vast majority of the players they have gotten in return are no more than 2 years away from possibly being big league ready. Which leads me to believe they are not looking for players like Rutherford, who is a minimum of three seasons away from realistically making the big leagues. Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, even Dunning late season should be on the 2017 roster at some point. Fulmer might as well, but I'd rather see him get some time in AAA. Burdi could very well be in the pen. Diaz was a quality fourth piece with upper 90's heat. Kopech might be a quick riser, but needs a full season in the minors this year and at least a half season next year (probably full). Collins should spend minimum one full season in the minors, likely two to work on defense. I fully expect him to mash in the minors this season. I project Collins to dramatically rise up the top 100 prospect charts. Basabe is interesting, in the his hit tool will completely decide his fate. If it ever develops he could be a really good prospect, or if it doesn't he will never sniff the major leagues. All of the other tools are there though.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:37 AM) If there is one thing that we have been taught in this off season is that the guys you are dreaming about aren't available. Realistically, who are you talking about? Talk of 2018 is crazy Talk of 2019 is best case rebuild scenario, everything that could have gone right for the Sox does 2020 - 2023 if we are not competitive, the rebuild has been a failure

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:30 AM) I'll just add that our 2016 draft was outstanding. Collins, Burdi, Hansen, Call and another guy I can't think of right now just add to the talent Hahn is obtaining. The future- the near future- is bright. Jameson Fisher led the NCAA in OBP. Very solid draft pick. Luis Curbelo has talent. Ian Hamilton is a decent relief prospect. Jake Elliott throws hard and is interesting as a prospect. Aaron Schnurbusch raked in rookie ball Matt Foster tossed a very impressive 29 1/3 innings, allowing only 12 hits along with 41 K's Michael Horejsei is older at age 24, but did very well in rookie ball and then A ball The 2016 draft was outstanding for the White Sox so far

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) But then were talking about a guy who was tied for 33rd last season amongst qualified batters in OBP. Tied for 59th in wRC+. That's not bad, but its also not great. At least not top 20 player in the game great. He also displays power sporadically at best and has good-not-great baserunning with disappointing steals totals. I see him as a fringe top 50 offensive player, the defensive renaissance he enjoyed in RF last year definitely boosts him but not to the kind of heights that justify giving up two of the best farm arms in baseball (PLUS a 1st rounder). Perhaps he fits what the Nationals need more than most teams so it makes more sense for them. Their window is probably only open for 2 more years anyways. But the Sox are likely to find 10 Adam Eaton's before they stumble on another Chris Sale or even Jose Quintana. That's why you take the pitching back in return for Eaton. Most teams would love to have 1 pitching prospect the caliber of a Giolito, Kopech or Lopez. Even Dunning has potential and performed very well over 8 starts this season and could be a fast riser. He was relegated to being a reliever in college due to Florida's absurd amount of pitching, but he could develop into a starting pitcher or quality bullpen piece. I felt he was an outstanding third piece to the trade.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:11 AM) First off, rebuilding was without question the right strategy for us. We were stuck in the middle with no money and a bottom five farm system. The choice to blow it up was a no brainer. Second, I am super excited to follow some of these young players. By June we could have a rotation that includes Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, & Fulmer. That's four young guys with TOR stuff. For diehard Sox fans, that already makes 80% games at least somewhat interesting. Plus we'll have an electric young arm in the bullpen in Burdi. By June we should also see the most exciting positional prospect the White Sox have had since Frank Thomas called up. I can't understate how excited I am to watch Moncada develop into the superstar he has a legit chance at becoming. I also can't wait to follow Anderson in his second season and see if he can become one of the top young SS in the game. And hopefully there are some other exciting positional prospects on the way between Quintana and/or other potential deals. Hell, I'm even excited to see if any of our C type prospects develop into anything. One or two of Tilson, Liriano, Engel, & May will get some serous playing time in the OF this year. Davidson could get a shot at DH or 3B. Right now Navarez looks to be in the mix at C. There are also a few interesting guys at Charlotte who might eventually get a chance in Delmonico & Peter. I'm not optimistic any of these guys will turn into solid major league players, but rebuilding gives us an opportunity to play these type of prospects and see if any stick. And finally I'm excited to cheer on our remaining trade assets in preparation for what should be an exciting 2017 deadline for us. Assuming Q is dealt in the next month, we could still have guys like Abreu, Frazier, Cabrera, Robertson, Jones, Jennings, Petricka, Putnam, Gonzalez, Holland, etc. that could bring back varying degrees of value. There should be a second influx of prospects come July of 2017. So ultimately while 2017 is going to suck from a wins & losses perspective, there's a lot of things to be excited for if you're willing to consider other angles. And guess what, if the losing is too much for anyone, they can simply change the channel and not feel guilty. There is no expectation to win next year which means following the White Sox can finally be on our own terms. After putting in hundreds of hours into this team over the last few years and receiving nothing in return but regret & unfulfillment, that's a huge plus for me. I'm right there with you I just think fans will need to be very patient with how long this rebuild will take. The earliest the Sox will be competitive will be 2019, likely 2020 before making a playoff push

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:00 AM) Never had an OPS over .800, didn't have a higher OPS than Melky last year. So a few nice throws from RF made him one of the best 20 players in baseball? Not buying it at all. Sox should've sold high on him rebuilding or not and glad they got what they did. This is about the time where we get our daily rumor that leads to rampant excitement and eventually dies off around 2 or 3 PM as the reality of not trading Quintana for yet another day sinks in. Just get this over with for gods sakes. Washington is convinced that Adam Eaton is Alex Gordon entering his prime right now, with slightly less gap and home run power That's not an awful comparison if you look at their stats

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 09:55 AM) Thanks. Re: last paragraph, I think it just depends how you rate Musgrove. Musgrove's plus plus control helps his stuff really play up. He throws a ton of strikes, and barely ever walks batters. There's some injury concerns, but overall he could develop into a very good #3 starter

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:10 AM) Who's ready for our daily rumor/tease? Pretty sure all we need right now is a tweet saying that a mystery team is making a push for Quintana to send this message board into a frenzy

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 07:59 AM) I actually didn't know he had that much power from the left side going up the middle and to opposite field. What a monster. Right now he puts up amazing numbers while batting from the left side, and subpar numbers when facing lefties from the right. He should be able to improve those splits over time. Prospects like this are exceedingly rare, as he does everything pretty well.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 07:15 AM) The White Sox are attempting to build something long-term that will be special/sustainable. More importantly they're getting with the damn times. There's still much work to be done. But how can you not be virgin about to lose their virginity excited right now? Moncada will be a superstar. Yes, a SUPERSTAR. WHAT.A.TIME. Watch Moncada's 2016 hightlight video (if you haven't already) He really crushed some moonshots

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 04:21 PM) The fact that the Pirates have been trying to trade Cutch should tell you Meadows isn't going anywhere. They absolutely love him. The reason they are attractive trade partners is because they can put together a really strong package without him. Glasnow and Bell are top 20 prospects and they have Newman (#42) and Keller (#72) as well. I would absolutely love a deal with Glasnow/Bell as the centerpieces + maybe Keller or some other high upside guys. Sox are not likely getting three top 50 prospects, that would be more than what Sale got. I would not rule out getting three top 50 prospects due to Quintana's surplus value Moncada was not just a top 50 prospect, but arguably the top prospect in baseball. Kopech had seriously trended upward from the #70's to being #30, perhaps higher as well. You do not part with players like that except for an elite player such as Sale Quintana could net the White Sox something like Glasnow or Keller, + Bell + Newman + maybe one more prospect