shysocks

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:51 PM) And if the Sox believe that 1.50 WHIPs and 4.5 K/9 is fine, that goes a long way to diagnosing the problems in this org. They know everything there is about Carroll and they think that that output is major league quality. I suspect we can throw some "good in the clubhouse" nonsense in the mix as well. Noesi, on the other hand, was coming from a different org. and Cooper thought he could improve him. They were wrong, but they took a shot. I think you're overreacting a little. The Sox don't think of Carroll as anything more than just a guy. No team in baseball has good players from top to bottom.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:03 PM) Based off his career or just what he did with the Cubs? I kind of thought this was more about what these guys did with Chicago teams, Pinella shouldnt be anywhere near this list if its just based off of his time with the Cubs. I was just messing around, as I look back at Piniella's time with Cubs very fondly. The sarcasm was pretty thin though. I agree, I think we're strictly looking at everyone's Chicago careers.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 01:55 PM) You would need to trade him for ML or ML ready players. You can't trade Sale for A ball prospects. Thats why a team like the Red Sox would make sense with Bogaerts, Castillo, Swihart, JBJ, Betts, Cecchini, Rodriguez, Owens, and Marrero to choose from. You can make a deal work with some of those parts and also minimize the amount of projection/development required. The Dodgers are similarly situated, the Rangers could put a deal if they wanted to build around Gallo. This would be akin to the Felix Hernandez trade that was discussed at the deadline in 2009 - http://nesn.com/2009/08/report-red-sox-off...elix-hernandez/ The Mariners correctly turned that trade down. Masterson and Reddick are the only guys on that list who were ever worth anything. If that's the type of package we're looking at in a Sale deal, we would NOT be better off trading him to plug all our holes. You take the best five of that list and you're barely plugging anything - your franchise is worse off. You've traded a YES! for a bunch of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Add the fact that right now, Sale has performed just as well as Felix had in 2010, and has a more attractive contract than what was in place for Felix. Can we all see why this will never happen? My god, it's ****ing ridiculous...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 12:51 PM) I'm at that point. What good is Chris Sale to us if he's just going to put up ERA's in the mid-2s for the next 3 years on a losing team? We spent the offseason saying "We can't waste Sale's good years like this". We're doing exactly that! We are now on a direct path to wasting them. Show me a way to put together a competitive team out of this mess and I'll stop thinking that, but if I'm now at the point where "This team looks like a debacle for years to come", what exactly is the point of having Sale for 2-3 years on that debacle? You're the one advocating, by admission, a sub-optimal move. The burden of proof isn't on me to tell you why it's a bad idea and give an alternative, but my alternative would start with not trading Sale. To the bolded, if you have a debacle, there's are all kinds of value in not turning it into a worse debacle.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 12:34 PM) Under normal circumstances (i.e. 2014) I would totally agree with Shys. It's no longer normal circumstances. We're now staring over an abyss, that makes more drastic responses something we need to consider. And those responses include trading Sale for less than he's worth? Because nobody can give you what he's worth.

Yep, it's the lug nut. Fixed it.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 11:58 AM) and you know this how??? Because minor league players aren't fair value for Sale, it's just a fact. The talent combined with the contract make him a rare asset, and if you want him, your MLB team is gonna have to be involved. There aren't any more ways I can say it.

I would have picked Lou Piniella if he were a choice, but given the options you're crazy if you don't choose Phil

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 11:42 AM) think about it, the team they have has a chance to get there, i am talking about players that is or are in the minor system. they will not affect the parent club in making the ws. plus i am talking about a young pitcher, i am not talking about a pitcher who is 32+yrs old. But those guys aren't going to get you Chris Sale. As a fan, would you be excited if the Sox got a bunch of minor leaguers back for him? I wouldn't and neither would Rick Hahn. You need one or more guys who are excelling in MLB because that's how much Sale's contract and track record are worth.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 11:33 AM) and adding a star pitcher to make the ws is also a way to get a raise. Or you never get to the World Series with your new star pitcher, and you gave away all your young guys for him. Lots of ways the trade would be risky for all parties and that's why it won't happen, certainly not within the next few years.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 11:29 AM) Unfortunately, "4 years under .500 out of 5 and no prospect for improvement the next few years" is also the kind of thing that should get a GM fired already. Whatever position a GM is in, "Trading a top 5 pitcher in baseball without the return performing immediately and emphatically" will expedite his firing.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 08:52 AM) The problem with trading Sale is that no team will pay what he's worth; and, honestly, I'm not sure that any team has the prospects that equal his worth. Dodgers maybe- they have 2 top 10s I think. Not the Cubs anymore; not the Astros at all. Certainly not Boston with all of that foolsgold in that organization. Haven't read past this post, but the bolded is all that really needs to be said. I've said before, a fair trade involving Sale is the type of thing that can get a GM fired later, and that's why this discussion is dumb every time it occurs.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 12, 2015 -> 02:46 PM) Hits for low average Does not walk much Poor defender Had zero trade value leading to his release Had no ST And he's holding out for an MLB deal and its mid June? That's just foolish. Take the minor league contract and hit your way back to the majors because that's the only way it will happen. I'm curious if this is Viciedo's decision or is he listening to his agent? Edit: Holy hell I spoke too soon! I finished typing this and boom, a few posts ahead said he just signed. Strike this post from the record please. Eh, it's all still pretty accurate.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 12, 2015 -> 11:53 AM) For what reason sir? QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2015 -> 11:55 AM) Rejected. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2015 -> 11:56 AM) Approved. I'm going to be taking the 6th off (3rd is a company holiday). Rowand and Southsider can work for us on Friday & Monday, respectively, for being jerks who don't want to grant us our time off. ^^^ I prefer this answer.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 12, 2015 -> 11:45 AM) From now on everyone here should post their vacation schedule and we as a group can decide whether to allow them their time off or not. Friday July 3 is a company holiday for me but I'm thinking of taking the 2nd off too.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 09:08 AM) Amtrak is very convenient for traveling along the DC/Baltimore/Philly/NY/Boston corridor. Everywhere else it's pretty much worthless. I'll add that I used it to commute to Milwaukee for about a year and it was generally fine. Way way way better than sitting in traffic.

Tampa is sitting on the 2nd wild card spot right now and is on pace for 85 wins.

The parity is remarkable. And our position players have combined for a negative WAR this season and we're 28-30. I haven't been around to read the mood of the board much, but we should all be positively ecstatic that the Sox are where they are given how poorly so many guys have performed.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 26, 2015 -> 03:57 PM) You actually are proving my point again. Kansas City needed one playoff appearance in 30 years to get fans to show back up. The White Sox got 2 in 4 years and their attendance dropped over the last two years, and the next season after again. Nothing about what the Royals have done could be called "a nice three or four year run of sustained success". That didn't prove your point at all, because Kansas City hasn't had time for the drop in the last two years that you cite. Their attendance in 2014 and 2015 mirrors what happened with the Sox in 05 and 06.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 22, 2015 -> 11:39 AM) The obvious question would be if the team had to go on these multi year playoff runs to bring in fans, how the hell did anyone here ever become a White Sox fan? The people here aren't the problem, all of us either live out of town or likely go to games far more frequently than the average fan. Casual fans are who don't attend Sox games, and there is a variety of reasons they've decided not to that are up to them, but the most important one is the team's performance. If the Sox won more, those people would show up more, and I don't really know how that can be disputed. People want to see and associate with a winner, as I illustrated by citing Blackhawks attendance in the other thread but people seemed to either not understand or retort in a smartass manner "SO THE SOX NEED TO BE A DYNASTY FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO GAMES, GOT IT."

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 21, 2015 -> 02:12 PM) i stand corrected But I mean there are definite opportunities for a Pokemon-inspired Belisario. I'll table that one.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 21, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) All in favor of eternal banishment, say "I" Hey I was at that game too and it was just as traumatic for me. I just choose to deal with my pain rather than bury it.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 21, 2015 -> 02:06 PM) You had a golden opportunity to bring out the old pokemon Belisario and you whiffed Not Pokemon, Banjo-Kazooie.

QUOTE (raBBit @ May 21, 2015 -> 01:23 PM) UGH, don't even remind me of that game.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 21, 2015 -> 09:10 AM) I went to Sale bobblehead day vs the Yankees last year, and if it wasn't a sellout, it was awfully close. I went to that too and the line to get through security was pretty rough. Since the PK game this Saturday will be even more attended, I'd recommend that anyone going get there a couple hours early.