OmarComing25

QUOTE (soxfan85 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 10:09 AM) I am trying to be as optimistic as I can This whole process is not over yet. However, I just get fed up with their whole "Holier than thou" attitude. They act like they are kings of the baseball world with this type of attitude, and that they can get anybody they want on their terms. However, what have we proven? We hardly ever win anything, and the biggest contract we have ever given out was Abreu at $68M. The behavior of the FO is just bizarre. QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 10:18 AM) Agreed and to me the most difficult thing to understand is if the FO doesn't get it or they are just cheap. It's pretty clear from an outsider we struggle with developing position players for the past decade or so. And this lack of success has created a problem as far as fling holes in the lineup through FA. It is impossible for them not to see in order to sign an impact type player these days it will cost money (we got lucky with Jose). If they are competing now then they have to break from business as usual and spend some money. We have the luxury of having a young cost controlled pitching staff so we don't have to invest on these SPs the way a lot of teams do. However we have to invest in the lineup and with the recent trades now the time to invest and see what happens the next three years with the core plus Crspedes. One last thing, I believe in the end we sign YO but it will be in large part because of the recruitment of Abreu and the fact they can play together for the next 3-4 years. I guess we'll see. I'd pay some serious money to be a fly on the wall in Hahns office to know exactly what's going on I think you guys are reading way too much into things, especially considering there's so much we don't know concerning these negotiations or how the market for the Big 3 has developed and changed. I'm not sure how you get "holier than thou" or "kings of the baseball world" from this.

Not saying it won't still be loaded and much better than the 2016 and 2017 FA classes, but I think everyone is overrating how good the 2018 FA class will be. A few years ago Austin Jackson was a 4-5 WAR player, Asdrubal Cabrera and David Freese were All-Stars, and Latos and Fister were 4 WAR pitchers, and now their value has significantly diminished compared to then. A similar drop-off will happen to several of these guys, whether by simple regression in performance or injury or both. Guys who would have been free agents this year like McCutchen, Bumgarner, Stanton, Posey, Gonzalez and Gardner signed extensions in that window. And you know at least 1 or 2 guys will completely fall off the map like Matt Kemp did compared to 2011-2012.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jan 1, 2016 -> 11:45 PM) I loved the deal until the Frazier deal which puts him at 2B. Hopefully his defense is average enough. The bat should play out at least. I still feel the sox would've been stronger with Sanchez at 2B, Frazier at 3B and finding our resources for a SS (been plus defensively at every position in the infield minus maybe 1B) and the OF but not gonna complain about it. Still like the deal alot. Lawrie basically cost no resources to acquire though. What we used to get Lawrie would not be enough to upgrade at SS.

Assuming he plays very sparingly against LHP, I don't think a .725-.740 OPS is unrealistic to expect from LaRoche, which is still not good, especially at the DH spot, but still a decent amount better than what we got in 2015.

I'm not going to read too much into anything until one of them actually signs a contract with a team.

It doesn't make any sense, I don't believe it for a second.

Yeah I don't buy it, at all.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:32 PM) And specifically saying he wanted to play with the Cubs' young core and Maddon as opposed to a theoretically better deal in terms of total guaranteed dollars from the Cards. Meh, I'd believe that was a big reason for him signing if there was no opt-out clause, otherwise it's just fluff.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:28 PM) since he was offered 200 million by other teams, he is taking less for a few years, in order to boost his value in 3 years to make more than the 200 guaranteed now. this will work out provide a) he continues to produce, b) he doesn't get hurt, c) there is a team willing to spend that much more on an older player. He is really betting on himself. I think I would have gone for the big money now, if the money is his only concern. He really won't be an "older player" if/when he opts out, he's 26 right now.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:21 PM) Weren't there reports that he was offered 200 million by other teams? By his own admission during interviews, he was offered more money elsewhere. He did not however specify the amount. Yes, he did turn down guaranteed money, but he's just making a small bet on himself. Assuming his production doesn't fall off drastically, he'll be in line to make a lot more money if he opts out. So while he technically took a discount, in reality it probably won't turn out to be a discount.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) So you're 100% confident Johnson and Saladino will keep their spots all season long then? No, and that's risky. The question is what's more risky - a full season of Cespedes and rolling the dice with EJ and Saladino (with Beck-Turner having to be possibly be counted on for 5-12 starts), or a full season of Latos, Parra and Ramirez, where Beck/Turner might have to be turned to anyway if Latos can't stay healthy again and EJ fails.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 01:42 PM) That's a better argument than saying the White Sox are in a more enviable better position than the Cubs because of the Lester, Heyward, Zobrist, potential Arrieta contracts and cheaper starting pitching. That was a post made by the resident Polyanna here. I don't think anyone else believes that.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 01:34 PM) Latos for $10-12 million (one year) Parra for $8-10 million (one year) add Desmond in June for 4 months....$10 million Wouldn't that be much more of an impact because...? 1) You're only spending roughly $5 million than on Cespedes 2) You now have credible insurance for injury/non-performance pitching-wise 3) You can get a pick if Latos does really well and/or trade him in June/July 4) Players would have more motivation to perform for bigger FA payoffs in 2017 5) You also have insurance for Saladino...not to mention PR, outfielder (potentially) or DH in the case of LaRoche or Avi flop 6) You don't have to worry about huge financial commitments with back end of Big 3 guys blowing up in your face and blocking efforts to reload/retool like Dunn/LaRoche/Danks deals have effectively done 7) Injury risk is spread across three players rather than just one Why would Desmond remain unsigned until June?

Despite his Samardzija-like ERA in 2015 Latos still had solid peripherals, he seems like a good buy-low candidate.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 12:50 PM) Gavin Floyd seems to be a wild card that could happen. I'd be down for a minor-league deal with Floyd for sure.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 11:51 AM) He doesn't platoon for the purpose of real platooning at all. so the only evidence i can provide is pinch hitting and pinch running. Evidence which is, predictably, ignored. Now the CW is that Soto with his .780 OPS against lefties is no good....esp compared to Laroche and his .383 OPS. Why wouldn't you play a 2nd catcher at another position? To protect against the slight chance that the starting catcher is injured? So you put yourself at a disadvantage game after game, to protect the slight chance that the starting catcher may get hurt and cost you one game? And the groupthink keeps rolling on. So you're going to criticize Robin specifically for something literally every manager does?

How much money does KC have to spend? If they sign Gallardo for $14-16 million/year, do they still have enough for Gordon, even at a decent discount?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 11:13 AM) One player he had was Soto. He pinch hit a grand total of 4 times. He DHd 3 games. You have yet to come up with one legitimate example where Robin failed to platoon correctly.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 10:42 AM) If we end up signing one of the big outfielders, then Melky and Avi would combined both get the majority of AB's at DH imo (one guy in RF, one guy at dh). If we don't bring in one of the big outfielders, then Laroche it is. Just not sold on a rebound, and apparently no other MLB team is either since we can't move him WITH a truck full of cash attached. That was only Pittsburgh. The problem is there really aren't any teams where he could be a fit, there aren't really any other teams looking to be competitive right now that are looking for a 1B/DH, the market just isn't there.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 06:22 AM) Was being the past tense...LaRoche was a good hitter in 2014, Samardzija a good pitcher. Avila was last "good" in which year that he had 400+ at-bats? http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/p...ed-2/order/true Here's a category the White Sox pitching staff overall was last in the AL, KC first. The Royals were better in whip, ERA, baa and ops. Whether it's starters or relievers that are your comparative advantage, you still need solid defense and offensive balance. And Complaining about starting pitching is irrelevant in the same way it will be in Yankees' games this season. If you have one of the top five bullpens in modern baseball history for two years running, why would you care if your starters go 6.5 vs. 5.25 innings on average? You might be the first person I've seen to actually argue that the Royals' SP was better than the Sox SP. Your own link proves your argument wrong. First of all, you didn't adjust for only starting pitching, so the stats you show are for pitching overall, including relievers. Secondly, DIPS% shows how much your pitching benefited or was hurt by the defense. KC being first means their pitchers were helped more than any other team by defense, while the Sox being last means our pitchers were hurt the most. Sox SP were better in WHIP (1.30 vs. 1.37), ERA (4.12 vs. 4.34), BAA (.261 vs. .269), and OPS too (.739 vs. .755). There was pretty much nothing KC SP had on the Sox SP in 2015, except being the benefactors of great defense, it was a garbage rotation.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 30, 2015 -> 04:08 PM) It wasnt really a not being able to close thing with those Bulls though, was it? From what I remember it was just guys liking to be wined and dined and use the Bulls as leverage. If these guys only intent are to use the Sox as leverage that is really going to suck. It seems like if they wanted to be here they would have been here by now but I could just be going crazy from the wait. QUOTE (TheCut87 @ Dec 30, 2015 -> 04:14 PM) This. seems like the longer this goes on the less likely we are to land one of them Why does a longer wait hurt our chances but not the chances of the other teams?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 30, 2015 -> 02:44 PM) I like it from a team's standpoint. You don't have to pay a guy in his possible declining years and not be tied up into bad money. Unless he underperforms and then doesn't opt out (Vernon Wells). Yes it can help out a team, like what happened with Belle and the Sox, but it still favors the player more than the team.

So is this the new era of the opt-out clause?

Yeah I highly doubt Gordon gets $100 million. I say $90 million max.

A team I haven't heard a lot of people mention but that might be in play for Cespedes is Washington. They made that big offer to Heyward so they obviously have the money, and they still need an OF. Wouldn't surprise me if they get in at the last minute.