tray

I spoke with several Sox and Cub fans around town today and to a man, every cub fan liked the trade and every so fan was madder than he11. Why make a trade that helps the cubs...in any way shape of form? Hahn had other alternatives.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 10:24 AM) So close... I guess that I got greedy. You almost nailed it..! Me, I am not happy about helping the cubs in a MAJOR way so I have to ponder this one for a while. Q will really help their staff in the second half of the season and his contract makes it easier to lose Arrieta instead of signing him to a big contract. I am thinking that Jon Lester's 10 run first inning debacle last week may have played into this. One other thought. Eloy is 19 and Moncada and Luis Robert are about the same age. I wonder what that means for Avi Garcia and other players that are in their mid-twenties...including Rodon. Maybe they are no longer in the window where there is a crescendo of talent from our prospects. Sorry for the long post...a lot to ponder here.

Other teams like the Astros, the Yankees, and the Brewers match up better with the White Sox for Quintana. The Cubs would have to blow those teams away with a package of prospects to get Quintana, and that obviously is unlikely.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 9, 2017 -> 09:03 PM) I know. I used to rail on and on about contracts and how dumb owners are cause it almost always ends up like this: Which is the team wanting to dump the guy. So Verlander makes 28,000,000 next year, then 28 mill in 2019 and 22 mill in 2020. I guess he's still "pretty good" but his era is 4.7 which is not good enough for that money, is it? Is anybody really going to take on that amount of dough? Cubs? Yes, because money is no object to Joe Ricketts and Co., yuge investment in building baseball's version of Disneyworld on the North side, Epstein's proven history of being a big spender, cub fans clamoring for a 're-peat". Add is Lester and Arrieta's inconsistency and you can almost bet the cubs will spend big on pitching if the opportunity presents and make a trade or two...at least one big name starter...perhaps Verlander, Sonny Gray or Archer.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 9, 2017 -> 08:31 PM) There is a gigantic disconnect here. By letting him play in the DR for a period of time, the White Sox offer to him is effectively $7 million higher than it would have been if he had played in the United States. This isn't about another million, this is about millions... plural. Seven of them. That is what it would have taken to get him the extra $4 million after taxes that he is getting by staying in the DR. Stop and think about that. They are effectively increasing their offer to him by almost 1/3. Would you like 1/3 more income? Would you be willing to utilize an advantage to gain 1/3 more income? I think your perspective is 180 degrees the wrong way. You are looking at this as the White Sox, instead of as Luis Robert. The White Sox went out and did everything they could to sell their contract and their organization to this kid. If they had tried to fit him into their box, and their rules, there is a pretty high chance he would have went somewhere else. If it takes this kid playing two and a half months of baseball in the Dominican Republic for him to sign with the White Sox it was 100% worth it. Period. THAT alone is the only fact that matters. We have Luis Robert in our system because we were willing to give him this set up. Besides that the idea that somehow because he is in the DR that he isn't getting first class care is so xenophobic and outdated it isn't funny. The White Sox are still staffing and equipping this team with their own personnel who are more than capable of handling all of the points that you tried to make about his care. I was hoping we were past manifest destiny at least though. Thoroughly answered and Eloquently stated !

Everyone is potentially right here, depending on the level of prospects that are being offered in return.

Yeah, I hate the bunting as well. Renteria is calling for it wayyy to much IMO.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 07:31 PM) Just DFA Shields for gosh sakes. He's done. Agree. He's beyond worthless. As far as Kahnle, there is a lot of overreaction here. Yes, he should not have grooved a 3-2 pitch with bases empty, but it is part of the learning process for him and the catcher who called that....and maybe for Renteria. Throw something for an aggressive hitter to chase or let him walk.

MLB trade rumors reports that Cubs may be interested in Verlander . That could start narrowing the field for starting pitchers.

2018 LF Moncada CF Leury Garcia/Engel RF Avi Garcia 3B Davidson/Moncada SS Anderson/Saladino 2B Yolmer Sanchez 1B Abreu Catcher - Smith/Narvaez Hard to predict a future line-up when we don't know who might be traded or acquired. Moncada has to switch to third base or outfield if he wants to help this team. Yolmer is far superior on defense and the Sox cannot afford to sacrifice that by putting Moncada at second. The Sox are not going to give up on Anderson as a shortstop. Pencil him in at SS for 2018.

The commonly held belief that Hahn fleeced Rizzo with the Eaton trade plays in the background and might impact future trade talks between them. You know, the old fool me once...In addition the Yankees, Red Six and a few other teams can offer plenty of mid level prospects if that is all Rizzo will put on the table.

The Nats should be ready to deal now. They not only have Robles, but also shortstop Carter Kieboom and Juan Soto. Then again the Yankees seem like great trade partners with all of their excellent position player prospects. Maybe a trade with the Yanks for Q and relievers plus an infielder to the Nats for a few top prospects.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 26, 2017 -> 10:53 AM) Fulmer, Collins and Burger are barely out of college. Be serious. Fulmer is barely out of college? 53 Minor league games over parts of three seasons with a 4.85 ERA and a 12-17 record. I don't want to bash these players any more than I have, so I'll let this go.

Pittsburgh also tried very hard to get Quntana during the off-season and to a lesser degree, the Yankees did as well. So what? Hahn has put a marker out for what he wants for Quintana and no team has or is likely to meet his demands. Several teams have passed on Q, and that was before he had a very weak start to the season. I doubt Hahn lowers the asking price at this point. The Sox are not desperate to trade Quintana. Q's trade value might even be on the rise now after the past few starts.

My 2 cents - I do not think Quintana will be traded during this season. My first reason in thinking that is that I doubt that teams will offer what Hahn wants, which might be a high value prospect, perhaps in the top 25 in baseball, plus one or two other prospects. No team , in my estimation, will offer that. Secondly, I read a few reports that indicate that Quintana has a comfort level with the WS staff, players and a City where the fans love him, and does not want to be thrown into a play-off race with an unfamiliar team. Of course, Q would not have a choice without a no-trade clause, but the WS might honor his wishes, especially if what is being offered for him is not compelling. I think the rebuild ha fizzled. I'm just glad they signed Luis Robert to at least keep some hope alive.

Even if the Sox would likely not trade a younger player like Tim Anderson or Avi Garcia, a statement that all players are available for trade purposes might cause other teams to reveal top players that they might make available. That would be good to know.

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Jun 26, 2017 -> 10:26 PM) Agreed that it's a bit early to judge the progress of the rebuild heretofore. I'm happy to have been wrong about the Front Office's willingness to sign Robert. I'm sad to have seen the impossibly premature extension given to Tim Anderson, whose performance @ the plate looks like that was a bad move. One wonders if Leury might be the better SS going forward. I hate the idea of promoting Collins and his (EDIT) .209 batting average to AA; if he can't make contact, he's not really a prospect, is he? Many of the pitching prospects look like they'll be relievers (Giolito & Fulmer), while Burdi & Kopech need to cut their walk rates down. Otoh, Dunning has been a pleasant surprise. However, all of this said, we're very early in this process, and all of the trends I mentioned here can easily reverse themselves by year's end, for better or worse. This front office still has to disperse more veterans to get back some pieces, and this draft class has only started to report, so ask us in September how it's going then... I don't agree with you about Tim Anderson, but I do on most everything else you said. My problem with the rebuild is that I do not see enough start position players in the Minors that can fuel a resurgence when they get promoted. Moncada and Robert....that's about it.

It's easy to be down on Renteria after the June swoon. It's possible he is not responsible for this. In any case, I think Renteria will have 3- 5 years like Ventura had, but we shall see. In the meantime, Renetria should probably put Davidson at third and get a guy that makes good contact to replace Frazier in the middle of the order.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 25, 2017 -> 09:53 PM) But just think if we'd just have lost 10 more games we could have gotten somebody so much better than Burger and Rodon and Fulmer. Damn, if we'd just lose more often our great front office would come through. Exactly, or as one might say, tanks a lot ! Other than the Sale pick the Sox may have had better outcomes by throwing darts blind-folded at a list of first round draft pick options. For the most part, it's been a rough decade for the White Sox on Draft day.

In my opinion, the busts we have had and those who will likely be busts. 2008 - Gordon Beckham 2009 - Jared Mitchell, Josh Phegley 2011 = Keenyn Walker 2012- Courtney Hawkins, Keon Barnum 2015- Carson Fulmer 2016- Zack Colllins 2017- Burger Yes, I have lost hoe that Fulmer and Collins will pan put, and I just can't see Burger as a major league player. If Carlos Rodon does not come back to pre-injury form, he might join that list.

Tim Anderson had some personal challenges dealing with the death of his best friend. He boots an occasional ball, but he also makes plays that some other shortstops can't. The team is not competimng this season, so let him work out problems and learn to hot major league pitching rather than sending him to the minors. He is still hitting over .250, I believe isn't he? I think the Sox may cut bait with Shields. Renteria did not look happy when he went out to the mound to pull him and I am sure that Sox brass was not all too thrilled with Shields laying an egg on Buerhle day with 38,000 in the stands.

We have Davidson who looks like he can be here for several years so where does this guy fit in? Courtney Hawkins and now Burger.. Burger is never going to play third base in the majors at that weight especially with his lack of balance and mobility. He looked like his shoelaces were tied together on those ground balls. A wasted 1st round pick.

IMO, that was an awful first round pick, just awful. A nothing burger. This guy is a tank who will box out further with age. He looks like a lot of the big boys who used to play 16" softball around the Chicago park district diamonds. That video showing him stumbling over his own feet and falling down (twice) while attempting to corral routine ground balls should have been enough to tell Hostetler that this was the wrong guy. Its hard to Draft major league talent after the first 10 picks, I guess. Wow, just wow.. OK, perhaps a RH DH, But we already have Davidson so what was the purpose in drafting a guy like this?

It might be what happens with a lot of pitchers who experience some elbow or shoulder pain, but are not diagnosed with a condition that requires surgery or where surgery is not the only choice. Jones might be trying to rehab it because if it needs surgery at this point, he may be gone for the season anyway. It's possible that the Sox just don't know right now.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 5, 2017 -> 05:38 AM) What the hell? Yea, I think Benintendi will prove to be a better player and hitter than Moncada. Hope I'm wrong. And I would have loved to have Trea Turner rather than Rodon. Courtney Hawkins is a bust. Yea, WTH!