KMule2545

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 03:11 PM) Swihart has a decent bat, but is a bad defensive catcher and is injury prone He does not have near the value I have seen many place on him I do really like Swihart as a 4th or 5th piece in a Sale deal, just not as a catcher. He makes contact, switch hits, and is extremely athletic.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 02:39 PM) Theoretically, if a trade for Sale brought back something like: Benintendi Devers E Rod Swihart + And you fielded a team of: C Swihart/Narvaez 1B Abreu/Frazier/Saladino 2B Saladino/? SS Anderson/Saladino 3B Frazier/Saladino LF Cabrera/Swihart CF Benintendi RF Eaton DH Cabrera/FA SP Quintana SP Rodon SP Rodriguez SP Fulmer SP Shields I could see that being better than a 81 win team without squinting too hard By all accounts Swihart should not be catching due to defensive shortcomings.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) Honestly, I hope not. Trading Sale should be part of a true rebuild. They should be punting on 2017 and 2018, with the plan of being an interesting team by 2019, and a postseason team 2020-2023. This is my stance. It does 0 to improve our long term depth trading just Sale.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) Everybody running to baseball-reference to see who that may be... Just added the link in an edit.

https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/803287370598649856 The Sox have signed catcher Roberto Peña to a minor league deal, according to Chris Cotillo. Hopefully his defense is phenomenal because his numbers are awful. http://www.baseball-reference.com/register...mp;mobile=false

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 09:31 AM) The more I've thought about this maybe LA would take Nate Jones for Puig. I would definitely take the chance on Puig if it was just Jones. Everybody seems to think Puig is poison. Maybe you wouldn't have to give up a Robertson to acquire him. Dude. Jones is a far superior reliever to Robertson at this point in time. Much better contract too. You have to get a Giles-to-Astros type deal for Jones...not a swap for Puig, who has 2 years of control left.

Can anyone confirm this?

QUOTE (South Sider @ Nov 27, 2016 -> 11:53 AM) Honestly, if the Dodgers want to attach a Puig to the deal, Urias better be coming back. I think he has negative value in that he seems to be a cancerous player, and on top of that he doesn't even perform that well. Attaching him to a deal to acquire Sale should mean Urias +++. Getting the Sox to take Puig off of their hands only hurts their ability to bargain with prospects. If I were the Dodgers and I needed to dump Puig, I'd explore any alternative possible other than attaching him to a deal for one of the best pitchers on the planet. Urias better be coming back regardless. This is Chris Sale we're talking about trading. Even if Sale was making 20+ mil anually the next 3 seasons, Urias better be coming back.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 27, 2016 -> 11:13 AM) There is zero chance of that happening. Even if they did, the guys they would get back would mostly be pre-40 man roster. I said 'per se' aka 'for the sake of the argument'. You really trust Reinsdorf to take back high ceiling 19 year olds over players close to the majors? I really don't. The guy is what, 81?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 27, 2016 -> 12:28 AM) Blake Smith, Purke, Beck, Minaya, Kahnle, Soto (pitcher), Coats, Kevan Smith, Lawrie, Leury Garcia, Avisail Garcia, Alfredo Gonzalez (catcher). That's 12, and doesn't include Liriano or Goldberg. Ynoa, either. 40 man roster space is the least of their issues. I personally have issue with ditching guys like Beck, Minaya, Soto, Kahnle, Avi (I know, I'm one of the few - the exit velos and launch angles along with a revamped stance he displayed in 2016 give me a sliver of hope), Liriano, Goldberg, or Ynoa for a rebuilding team. Shoot Beck, Kahnle, Goldberg, and Ynoa have potential to play useful roles in a bullpen. But I see your point - there's a lot of expendale players if push comes to shove and we receive legitimate players in return.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 11:25 PM) A lot of the guys would be low minor players. There are a bunch on the 40 man that could be cut and wouldn't be missed. Which players are you okay with cutting and getting no value on?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 10:13 PM) Eh. There is plenty of chaff on the 40 man roster that will be easy to replace if we get back superior players. I agree. But if you traded everyone with value this offseason per se (Sale, Q, Eaton, Abreu, Robertson, Jones, Melky, Frazier, Lawrie, Jennings - 10 players) you're looking at getting around 20-25 players in return. There's maybe 5 or 6 guys on our 40-man I'd be okay ditching without either seeing more of them or getting literally nothing in return for them, on a supposed rebuilding team.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 05:06 PM) Very doubtful they trade sale and Quintana. Rebuild or not they still have to field a team next year. Be patient and let the market come to the sox True. And thinking about it, it would be pretty difficult to do in one offseason due to 40-man roster spots. The 40-man currently sits at 39 after the Ranaudo release. It will already be tight with only a Sale trade, if we get players close to ML ready.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 03:12 PM) So look at the Cubs, but it isn't about the Cubs. Um, OK. Like I said. If you listen to people who play the game, most players need stability to be at their best. Sure exceptions exist, but in general, if you look around baseball, star players play the same position, and hit in the same spot in the order, almost every single day of a season. It's about how Joe Maddon chooses to utilize his players and creates a culture. He is one of the best in the game. He simply happens to be the Chicago Cubs manager and the only example of someone who uses such methods. Like I said, if he was still the manager of the Rays I would be using him as my example.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) The Cubs got much better than average production from their catcher's spot...same thing with the Royals and Perez. The White Sox have proven in numerous ways how hard it is to replace a solid performer either offensively or defensively at that spot. All one needs to do is look at 2013-2016 and our output there. Can't be too quick to bring up Collins for another position of need. Yet another reason rebuilding now instead of forcing Burdi, Fulmer and Collins up too quickly makes more sense. I agree 100% with this but they did just rush him to the AFL in the year he was drafted. I'm prepared to see them rush prospects like they have been doing until they prove otherwise. By the way, I wasn't suggesting to move Collins off catcher just because we have other positions of need long-term. Just to preserve his bat as long as possible. Most catchers aren't elite hitters, and if they are, they don't last that way long. I'm also worried about his defensive abilities behind the plate. Catching is after all a defensive-first position.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) At the same time though - Buster Posey won 3 world series championships while still on his rookie deal and the Twins won the AL Central 3 of 5 years between 2006 and 2010 with Mauer still under his rookie control. Yes, without steroids catchers take a beating, but a major bat at the catching position can be a huge difference maker - a big boost in OPS out of that slot makes up for a lot of weakness elsewhere in your lineup. And if he's only an average bat at the catching position rather than an MauerVP level bat, if you can work him up into a solid defender then an average bat at the catching spot with average defense is a really good player. But would you rather have a guy putting up .300/.400/.500+ slash line potentially at a different spot with 30-40 HR, or an average at best catcher with a much lesser batting line? We drafted Collins for his bat first and foremost. If we end up fully rebuilding and gain LF and 1B prospects I would agree with everything you said. As it stands now we don't even have those spots covered long-term.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) The reason it is something you noticed is because they were the one team who was able to carry it off. If it were easy, 29 other teams would be doing it. I swear some people need to take the Cubbie blue glasses off. Winning isn't easy. IT ISN'T ABOUT THE CUBS. It's about being open minded and trying something new. I'm willing to bet you're in the category of people on here who want to keep going for it again too. Or trade Sale and Frazier then keep going for it in half-ass White Sox style. I swear some people want to keep banging their heads against the wall and expect different results instead of using new and different ideas with an open mind. Joe Maddon just so happens to be on the Northside of Chicago. I'd be saying the same thing if he was still in Tampa (where he was also highly successful with a lot less talent). Again, I didn't suggest to do it with your whole team. One of the mentioned players in Bregman isn't even on our team, and Sanchez is likely to be a bench player anyway. When Zack Collins comes up we damn well better use him as a 1B/C/DH and maybe even LF if we keep him at catcher, to keep his bat legit. Look how quick Joe Mauer became irrelevant and an awful contract by staying behind the plate strictly. Buster Posey's OPS+ has fallen every single year the past 5.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 12:53 PM) Sounds great on a greeting card. Doesn't work as well in real life. Lol. 2015 and 2016 Cubs never happened I guess. Just because all 30 MLB teams don't do something doesn't mean it can't or wouldn't work for the White Sox. It's absurd to denounce something we haven't even tried. But we have failed with guys having 1 set position. Joe Maddon's Christmas cards read "2016 MLB CHAMPS"

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 10:28 AM) In general, players do better with a set role. Some can flourish otherwise, but in general, players want to know where they are playing and hitting on a daily basis. Moving people around and getting them thinking are usually not good things. I would say Tyler Saladino embraces such a role, though. Heard him say he's been playing everywhere on the diamond since he was a kid. I can't speak on that for Bregman. I hate to bring the Cubs up, but they're the perfect example. Bryant, Zobrist, Baez, Contreras, Schwarber all can play in multiple spots. I'm willing to bet all of those guys have egos too. It's about a selfless culture where winning is the most important thing.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Nov 26, 2016 -> 08:07 AM) So far with still a limited sample size, Saladino has been league average at 3B but above average at 2nd. Saladino had 12 DRS in 60 games at 3B in 2015. He had 1 DRS at 2B in 41 games in 2016. On paper he seems like a better fielder on the left side. The guy was simply a better hitter in 2016 than 2015. I don't understand comparing him to other 3B or 2B offensively. Obviously 3B is a deeper position offensively. Comparing them to other 2B and 3B offensively matters very little for us other than how sexy it looks on paper (league average vs above league average, at a certain position), especially with our 3 hitters deep lineup (Eaton, Abreu, Tim) at the moment. We need good players, period. Whether they're average etc. at one position compared to the rest of the league is irrelevant.

QUOTE (ChiSox1917 @ Nov 25, 2016 -> 06:30 PM) Best thing the White Sox could do, is to do the complete opposite of whatever that buffoon says to do Hahahah. Yeah, Russo is entertaining, but is the least knowledgeable person on MLB Network.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 25, 2016 -> 06:03 PM) Theoretically because moving guys like Beckham, Viciedo and Semien didn't work out well for the Sox. Similar arguments have been made about Saladino, while others want to try him in the outfield to increase his versatility (well, at least until the scope of his injuries became apparent.) Obviously, the Cubs move Zobrist, Baez, Bryant, Contreras and Schwarber a lot...less of a problem because of talent level. Going off of that theory Bregman will already bust with us no matter what, since he'll be moving off of his natural SS any way you spin it. Beckham was rushed to the Majors about a year early, like all Sox prospects have been the past decade. He also killed it at 3B in his rookie season (moving off his natural SS). Viciedo was an absolute butcher at his natural position (3B) and a 2 tool guy (power bat and power arm). Also, none of the former Sox you mentioned were shuffled in different roles consistently as I'm suggesting Bregman and Saladino should be. They played one position one year, another the next year - not 2B Tuesday then 3B on Wednesday and LF on Friday. IIRC, Saladino was one of the league leaders in DRS at 3B (natural SS) in 2015 in not a full season and looked damn good defensively everywhere in 2016. Just trying to stoke the fire here, not be an a-hole. Can anyone list Saladino's injury history? I only know of his Tommy John in the minors and back (?) injury at the end of 2016.

Bregman is extremely versatile. Saladino and Sanchez can both play anywhere in the IF. You guys are arguing apples and oranges here. Why do versatile players need to have a set position, especially in this day and age? Bregman will hit anywhere you put him and Saladino will defend anywhere you put him.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Nov 25, 2016 -> 07:11 AM) You still try to develop him as a starter. The problem is his consistentency with his mechanics. That has been an issue since day 1 and hasn't changed. That's why majority of the baseball Industry believes he will be a reliever. Fulmer mechanics with his breaking ball and fastball command is a big concern. For me I believe there is a 10% chance of making it as a starter. Eratic mechanics, fastball command, and development of his breaking ball are reasons that puts him in the bullpen. I agree with most of what you said...but come on .. a 10% chance to stick as a starter? With his combination of stuff/make up/competitiveness? Mechanics aren't everything in the world. The guy was rushed to the Majors by a year or 2 by this crazy organization we love. He's still 22 years old. If he hasn't made legitimate progress in the next year or 2, okay. He needs time to actually develop his fastball command and get a chance to smooth out his mechanics. Just because he was a college pitcher doesn't mean he was MLB ready when we drafted him. Just like Rodon, who shouldn't have sniffed the Majors in 2015. All this being said, I'd be a huge fan of him in a multiple-inning reliever role. I'm just not close to writing him off as the starter many of us envisioned him being (he's had his skeptics the whole time) before the 2016 campaign.

QUOTE (JLarucci23 @ Nov 24, 2016 -> 05:39 PM) Does Bregman have the glove to stay at third? He has the defensive tools and baseball IQ to have at least average D at SS, 2B, 3B, or LF. I'm curious if he'd be up to play CF similar to how Trea Turner did.