KMule2545

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 07:26 PM) Yeah, I get it. Did he struggle to stick with it when he struggled in September? Honestly, I don't know. I watched almost 0 live White Sox baseball in September. I'm willing to bet his approach is what faltered.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 07:01 PM) I'd love you to provide a single example of a player who was a sub-.700 career OPS hitter across three full seasons while providing negative defensive or base-running value that was given a fourth season and suddenly figured it out. You're gonna wanna go look up Justin Turner's career then.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 07:11 PM) Well, if he truly did revamp his swing, old habits die hard. It's possible that he struggled to revert back to what's comfortable for him when he began to struggle. Honestly, it took me about 10 PAs before I thought we had made a mistake, but that's just my uneducated opinion. Ultimately, this really isn't the end of the world for the time being. Old swing. His hands are not in a position to explode on the baseball. New swing August 2016

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 07:14 PM) That's probably the best example out there. I honestly can't think of a second player that comes close. Just shows how rare it is for a player to suddenly break-out in their 4th year. Donaldson, Justin Turner, Encarnacion

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 07:10 PM) Seven seasons in the minors and over 2,000 at-bats is hardly rushed... Bautista had 755 and 753 ops seasons his first two years in the majors with the Pirates. Garcia is well short of that. The jump to AA is huge. Then to jump from that to the majors? Even bigger. 0 time in AAA and 55 games in AA is being rushed. He was a raw player from Latin America. Throw Minor League PA out the window.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 06:40 PM) It was at 63 million. Even better. - Melky's 15 million and Sales 13 or so. We're going to have an Oakland-like payroll if we sell these guys. Signing placeholders for 3 or 4 mil (1 WAR is worth roughly 8 mil BTW) has no effect on any business moves. They're getting paid for what they've been. Less than 1 win players

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 06:39 PM) He's had a lot of minor league at-bats during his career. The only reason he was "rushed" was he started putting up big numbers in in the Detroit system in High A and AA and they must have felt the numbers were sustainable. He started out with the Tigers being a high average, low power guy despite that size and Mini-Miggy stuff. That was partially blamed on Comerica. And then always that potential word. He had 55 games in AA before being called up. That is the definition of rushed. Especially being considered as a raw player at the time. He was up out of necessity, not because it was best for his development.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 06:37 PM) It's a position in which the Sox have depth that can at least replicate Lawrie. $3 million here, $4 million there. it adds up. And the Sox have squandered a lot with such signings of bad players. To be fair, our payroll stood at 70 mil before these signings, I believe. It'll get a lot lower if we shed Melky's 15 mil etc.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 06:35 PM) Eaton for Giolito, Robles, & Lopez. Who says no, Hahn or Rizzo? I know I'd take that trade in a heartbeat if I was Hahn. I think Hahn says no, TBH. At least right away. I guarantee he's asking the world for Q and Eaton.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 06:11 PM) Career: 1,551 PA's, 89 wRC+, .695 OPS 2016: 453 PA's, 86 wRC+, .692 OPS Sane teams wouldn't give the above player another 500+ plate appearances and expect a different result at this point. I'd actually be pretty pissed right now if I wasn't confident a rebuilding is coming and the fact we can always cut ties with him before the season starts if something better comes along. Age:25 Years with a completely revamped swing that doesn't blow d*** : 1 2nd half OPS in the first year with a new swing: .840, as another poster mentioned. Salary: an absurd 3 million Plenty of talented players don't bust out at age 25 or before. Donaldson, Bautista, Encarnacion, Justin Turner, etc. Do I think he is going to become a stud all of a sudden. Most likely no. The only reason I'm defending Avi is the such strong hate that he's getting everywhere. You hate him cause he's sucked in his time so far with the Sox? Fine. Take your emotions out of it. He's making peanuts on a loser team with no one blocking him, and a world of potential. The fact that some people think players aren't s*** unless they're good instantly is absurd and short sighted. That is one of the reasons why the White Sox are so bad at player development. Sometimes, development happens to take a bit of time. Especially raw players who are rushed by clubs like Detroit and the Sox. I would be right with you guys if he was making double his 3 million/if we were a competitive team/if a legitimate player was blocking him at DH. None of those things happen to be true.

Chances he gets moved?

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 05:24 PM) He's entering his 5th year with us, putting up a -2.4 WAR. He is presumably the worst 4 year Opening Day starter in the 115 years of this franchise. Anyone trying to see any even remote upside in him is suffering from a huge case of Stockholm Syndrome, but at least you're not alone with Rick Hahn. Yeah, having hope for a 25 year old former top prospect with insane power potential as a DH on a rebuilding team is insane! Insane I tell ya!

QUOTE (Nokona @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 05:25 PM) Guys, Avi OPS'ed .840 after the ASG Clearly he turned the corner, it's only up from here! #MakeAviGreatAgain That's actually a great stat, thanks! That coupled with the exit velos and launch angles gives me some hope. He's 25, not 28. Worst case he helps us get a top 5 draft pick. Best case he actually develops. Its a no lose situation on a rebuilding team. He is blocking no one.

QUOTE (kwill @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 05:18 PM) I would not non-tender Brett Lawrie. I think after the dust settles in Free Agency there will be a market to trade him to contender that did not fill a need. He will be on an expiring probably 6 million dollar contract. He can play both 2B and 3B. Worst case scenario we hold onto him and play him at third base after we trade Frazier. It's feels kind of similar to the Flowers situation. I feel that somebody will give up something for Lawrie. But I thought the same of Flowers.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 05:17 PM) Where was that implied at all? So you'd rather have Shuck as your DH? An old veteran?

QUOTE (Nokona @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 05:14 PM) hell yeah b**** all aboard that exit velocity train Make Avisail Great Again Hahahaha

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 05:00 PM) Whats the point of even giving him a shot? Even on a rebuilding team it doesnt make any sense. He's a bad player. Your wasting reps for someone else. I don't understand all the hate for this move. The guy is 25 years old! Would you rather have Avi with a high ceiling (unlikely to reach it, I know) 3 million to DH or some old ass vet that spot? It's not like we have other options at the present time. I mentioned this in other threads, but he had better exit velocities in 2016 than Bryant and Rizzo. And was in his first year using a revamped swing. He was rushed to the Bigs by Detroit. Do I think he's going to become a stud? No, most likely not. But development isn't linear for all players. It's 3 million dollars. Not 6 or 8 mil. We're rebuilding - not competing.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 03:52 PM) i wouldn't be surprised. sell high. clubhouse lawyer. Prone to injuries. heard he asked to move his locker to a different spot last season because everything wasn't peachy keen in his area. Good tidbit.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 03:39 PM) Wonder if the nats go hard and try to get Sale and Eaton, Turner, Giolito, Robles +++ Eh, personally I'd rather see our big guys traded seperately rather than packaged to one team, unless it's someone with an extremely deep farm. The Nats farm isn't overly exciting to me after the obvious 4 or so guys + Sweet TreaT and Joe Ross/AJ Cole.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) Nationals:Eaton and N. Jones Sox: Giolito, Robles, Fedde, Stevenson Would you take that deal? TBH, I wanna see a Ken Giles-esque depth package in return for Jones, even if it isn't super elite guys. I'd much rather throw in D Ro or Jennings.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 03:14 PM) I feel like a 28 year old Eaton under control for 5 years would be a safer bet than McCutchen at age 30 under control for two more McCutchen was awful defensively this year and Pittsburgh needs to sell him off now before he loses any more value. Sure, he could be great again, but the trend does not look good Yeah, I think Cutch is headed in the wrong direction. Defensively he's fallen off, his WAR has fallen for 4 straight years (including a -0.7 WAR in 2016), and rising K rates each of those years. They may have missed their best possible return on him by a year.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 02:18 PM) I guess the thing about Eaton to Washington is that they're looking for a CF. Could Eaton do that, or is he better in RF? To be fair, McCutchen has been garbage in CF recently. Eaton would be the same if not better - with 3 more years of control to boot.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 03:06 PM) How do you know for certain he does not want to be here? Frankly, it doesn't matter. He is under contract for 5 years, so his opinion is moot That's a continuing of the 2016 issues with players clashing with the FO. That needs to end...that's cancerous activity in any clubhouse.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 03:02 PM) Who says no? Nats get: Eaton and Jennings Sox get: Giolito, Robles, Fedde, Reetz Edit: I'm saying the Nats say no You think they say no? If I'm the Sox I go to the Nats with Eaton and say "we'll give you 3 more years of Eaton for whatever you're offering for McCutchen". It should be roughly a package like you mentioned.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 12:09 PM) Eaton had more BWAR than Sale last year FWIW. They play different positions so it's not exactly comparable, but I thought I'd point that out. I think Eaton would return the Sox just as much in a trade as Sale, if not more. He's an absolute stud. ' Value-wise, he's as valuable as Sale - and Q. That being said I agree that any team will not be willing to give up as much for Eaton or Q, as they would for Sale. While very good players, they aren't superstars and don't have the sexy brand name of a Chris Sale. That being said I really don't have a problem taking less on either Q or Eaton, assuming a Sale package is unheard of. IMO, it's time to maximize value on our top performers. The market will tell Hahn and Co what these guys are worth.