KMule2545

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 01:08 AM) I don't get it. Jerry is getting old. We have some great ballplayers on our team who were poorly managed by Robin. Now instead of giving it a chance with Renteria (albeit he is no Joe Madden, Terry Francona or Gardy) and buying some actual good players/reliever to go with what we have, we're going to gamble on a total rebuild? And why the hell should we trust our scouts, who can't scout an AL Central team to save their lives, to get the right players for that rebuild? We could be a lousy ballclub for 10-15 years. Jerry is no spring chicken. Why in the hell would he approve a total rebuild when it's going to be painful? We already have been lousy for 10 years almost dude. But you're suggesting we keep doing the same thing and refuse to try new methods to build a club?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:49 AM) I think the problem is many posters here were expecting some magical Sale trade that plugged all our holes and then we'd be ready to compete. Hell, some posters thought the return would be so great that we could actually get better after dealing Chris. The reality is we're going to have to move a lot more pieces than just Sale to clean up this mess. If we get pitching back in a deal so be it. The goal should be added as much high-end talent as possible and worrying about fit later. +1 Just like when you draft, you get the best talent you can and figure out the rest later with either trades or position switches. SP vs hitter is irrelevant at this point considering how barren our system is with pitching AND hitting.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:39 AM) Q and Rodon as TOR starters. We only need to come up with 1 more front line caliber starter. Our system will come up with the rest in a few yrs If we truly rebuild you can expect Q to get traded. If we aren't yet competing in 2-3 years you can expect Rodon to be moved as well. How many guys are gonna get injured too? Bust? You need to be 7-10 pitching prospects deep.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:30 AM) Don't like the Nats prospects. If the deal is completed as rumored I am going on record that this trade will be the end of the Hahn/KW show. We need positional prospects not pitchers. Their organization doesn't have one hitter I can point to besides Turner who is a must have. If we are trading Sale for only prospects now wait until the trade deadline again. I would be so pumped as a Nats fan what a no brainer steal of a deal. We need pitchers too, who are you kidding. We have two good SP prospects in Hansen and Adams. 3 if you consider Fulmer a future SP.

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:22 AM) There is still a premium to be paid by the Nats, even if you trust that a prospect with a.741 OPS isn't actually a suspect. I'd love to see a list of L-A prospects at age 19 with an OPS that blows you away. I can think of one off the top of my mind, Eloy Jimenez. Edit: before Eloy's .901 OPS this year (breakout year) at age 19 his previous OPS were .746 in 2015 and .635 in 2014.

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:16 AM) I do see that now. However, he still only put up a .741 OPS in his 3rd MiLB season, which does not scream "franchise altering" in the least. I still hate this as a suggested return for a Cy Young contender, particularly give his age and surplus value. He put up a .741 OPS in 41 games at high A in 2016. He put up an .864 in 64 games in A ball, also in 2016. Most high school prospects don't touch high A by age 19. Let alone go through a complete 180 culture change and going to a new country with a new language you don't speak.

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:00 AM) Fangraphs has his FV as all of 40, largely owing to his hit tool being judged as being below average. http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...amp;position=OF In other words, his FV is roughly equivalent to Charlie Tilson. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-21-pros...cago-white-sox/ Pipeline had him as the player with the 2nd best tools in the game, behind Buxton and in front of guys like Moncada and Mateo and Arcia. http://www.federalbaseball.com/2016/2/3/10...ts-in-raw-tools "He was a very high-energy player who showed quick-twitch actions, very good feel for hitting at a young age and was just an exciting young player with raw tools and a lot of potential,” Scialabba said. “The way he stood out was because of how he played the game in all facets, with a lot of energy" https://www.google.com/amp/www.baseballamer.../%3Famphtml%3D1

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:47 PM) Yup. We were promised a return that would "blow us away." f*** Giolito's subjective "ranking," maybe him sucking out loud (in the little boy NL, mind you) is why he's available. And maybe Robles' measly .741 OPS in his third professional season is why the Nats want to sucker this front office. Sounds good, I'll get the gasoline ready, you get the oily rags. Holy s***. Mind blown. "Sucking out loud" in a handful of Major League starts at age 21 really makes players super sh*** these days. Read a damn scouting report on Robles then report back to us.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 10:00 PM) I would think he's off the table. Maybe Hoffman? Tapia? David Dahl is an interesting name too.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 09:54 PM) Patrick SaundersVerified account ‏@psaundersdp Interesting. @harding_at_mlb writes that #Rockies and #Whitesox have had preliminary talks about 1B Jose Abreu: http://m.rockies.mlb.com/news/article/2103...-first-basemen/ 0 chance we could nab Brendan Rodgers?

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 09:50 PM) Velocity down and command brutal. Also believe his mechanics were messed up Regardless of the outcome or what happened, that is a miniscule sample size to make an elite prospect's stock plummet at the ripe age of 21.

QUOTE (b-Rye @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 09:48 PM) Carson Fulmer? How did Carson Fulmer's stock plummet at the MLB level in 8 games/no starts? The guy turned in a 4.63 ERA between AA-AAA.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 09:44 PM) Giolito's stock really plummeted after he was awful in 4 starts last year. He's got the tools, but who knows if it'll translate well to the Majors. How does a 21 year old's stock plummet in 4 MLB starts??

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 09:35 PM) Bowden: The White Sox and Nationals are far down the road on a trade that will send Chris Sale to the Nationals in exchange for Lucas Giolito, Victor Robles and a low minor leaguer. Reynaldo Lopez and Koda Glover will not be in the proposed deal. The structure of the deal was first reported by Ken Rosenthal. Bowden doesn't know s***. Rosenthal reported earlier the Sox would get Giolito/Robles and "much more". 0 chance they trade Sale for just 3 prospects.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 09:06 PM) Just not a fan of Giolito. Oh well, clear the big name guys are unavailable Why, the TJS? Guys who throw upper 90s with a hard curve don't come around every day.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 08:46 PM) Strikeouts are cool. But so are position players. It's not like we have any pitching prospects either besides Hansen, Adams, Fulmer (possible reliever), and Burdi (reliever).

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 08:28 PM) Nice try, Stark This was from Rosenthal.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 08:20 PM) Robertson for Soler. Who says no? Cubs? I actually just told my buddy who's a Cubs fan to give us Soler and Candelario for Robertson

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 07:38 PM) No. Probably can get Conforto + for Jones. Mets have really soured on him. This is just false. They're trying to move Granderson/Bruce to be able to give Conforto a spot. They've been saying on MLBN recently how much the Mets love Conforto and believe he has a bright future with them.

QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 07:42 PM) There hasn't been any movement because the Sox don't intend to sell. Robertson is the only guy that might be moved. The FO is gonna try to patch the holes by dumpster diving and low profile FA signings. It is the only thing they know how to do. There hasn't been any movement because it's day one of the Winter Meetings. Almost no major trades have happened so far this offseason, for any organization. Probably the Segura one has been the biggest til now. Read Hahn's quotes from today. It's pretty clear the intention is to rebuild.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 06:59 PM) That's cause Q is worth as much as Sale to the Sox. If they can't get fair value for Sale, they're not getting it for Q either. Let's be realistic, IF they move Q (we've heard they'll hold onto him) it's going to be after Sale gets traded when they pull Q out of their pocket and show teams "look what else we got".

Yeah, go for it and let's continue being mired in mediocrity with 0 depth and minimal talent beyond a handful of players. Just stop already with this. It's the first day of the Winter Meetings - not the eve of Spring Training. Some team will get desperate enough in the coming weeks and pony up for Chris freakin Sale. This isn't James Shields we're trying to push for a mega package here. This is arguably the best trade chip of all time.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 05:09 PM) We'll see about that. I'll buy the book IF he makes a deal. In the meantime, the Sox should be selling a bunch of other guys. Agreed. I'll be extremely disappointed if the Sox leave the Winter Meetings having done nothing significant.

The Art of Negotiation, a novel by Rick Hahn

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:33 PM) I think teams are going to be reluctant to give up the farm for a RF with a sub 800 Ops despite the his WAR, especially when he doesn't have any truly stand out tools. In the same way, teams will be reluctant to give up the farm for Q because his stuff doesn't wow you, despite the consistent results Exactly. Sale is a name brand player. Q and Eaton are not. Regardless of how much we all now love WAR these days and want to use it as a value standard in trades, it doesn't always work like that in the real world.