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QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:31 PM) If Giolito were actually as elite of a prospect as his ranking then I highly doubt that he would be on the table in a trade. The fact that Giolito very much is on the table should be a big red flag about how the Nationals feel about him Years from now I can see us looking back on this and laughing about how "untouchable" Trea Turner is for Chris Sale. Odds are that Giolito and Robles never make an impact at the mlb level...prospects bust all the time Why do you feel this way? He was gonna go 1st overall if he didn't need TJS. He's currently ranked #3 prospect in the game. His stuff is filthy. He has risks sure. But if they're already holding back Turner, the Nats know they can't hold any of their true prospects back if they wanna be players for Sale.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) I was thinking Lopez and Fedde and Severino. Watch some video on Lopez. His mechanics are pretty sloppy. My guess is that Coop would say no to Lopez unless he sees an easy fix.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 02:57 PM) I'll give you a few guesses which of the 3 has accumulated the most fWAR since that draft. Yeah because fWAR by age 23 is a great indicator of who will end up the best player. Especially with Turner and Schwarber being hitters and Carlos a pitcher that was rushed to the Bigs.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 02:23 PM) Joel Sherman tweeted that neither Houston, Washington nor Boston are willing to give the Sox the "anchor player" the Sox are insisting on in a Sale trade. If that's the case then f*** them all...you keep him. Mark I was on this side but now I disagree. Go get your 2 or 3 prospects who will be those anchor type prospects in the next year or so. Your Devers, Kopech, Robles etc. The reason nobody wants to give up your Swansons and Bregmans is because they're already established. I agree that my ask is one of those elites too, but if all teams refuse you have to get creative. Doing nothing continues this White Sox era of no direction.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 01:53 PM) The only thing I hope the Sox don't do is package Sale and Eaton together. I'm with this unless they gave us Turner, Giolito, Robles, Ross, Cole, plus another few guys of our choosing.

We've discussed this regarding Bregman, if we were able to pry Turner from DC, does he play CF for us? 2B? SS?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 01:22 PM) Interesting. The Red Sox were out before. Now back in. Once one team caves, expect others to follow. Sale is one of the better established trade pieces of all time if you think about it. All factors considered, I can't think of a better trade piece in previous history.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:37 AM) For Robertson? No. It'd be like 1 extra piece. And they pay the 2/25 contract. Robertson would perfectly fit their supposed 2 year window with Haper under team control.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:27 AM) Thanks. Robles, Giolito, Ross, Cole/Lopez, Severino and a wildcard offensive piece (one of Kieboom/Nuese/Stevenson/Ward/Banks). Maybe that is too much, but that's what I'd expect without Turner. Let's them keep one of Cole/Lopez..I assume they'd keep Lopez. I'm with you. It should hurt any team acquiring Sale to pull the trigger.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:16 AM) Lots of people these days saying that post TJS guys are actually safer, and their elbows stronger. I don't disagree with what you're saying - but its not that cut and dry any more. Cole and Ross and intriguing, for sure, but we'd only have 4 or 5 years of control on Ross. 5 years of control on Ross, FYI. He has a little over 1 year of service time.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:05 AM) Giolito, Robles, Fedde, Lopez, Severino and Kieboom for Sale and Robertson work? I mention Robertson because it looks like the Nats are gonna lose Melancon to the Giants and would be in need of a closer. For me, swap in Ross and Cole for Lopez and Fedde. Lopez has a scary delivery and Fedde is already a TJS guy. You can't get back 2 TJS guys in Giolito and Fedde as part of a Sale trade, IMHO.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:08 AM) I've gone from discussing how Giolito was the top prospect who scared me to now thinking people are going way too far on other end on him. We saw with Rodon, these guys take time to develop. MLB hitters are good. Yep. I know I'm repeating the same rhetoric here, but development isn't a linear path. The rare guys are great instantly in the Majors - most aren't and take time to develop. Besides, Giolito had what, 8 starts in the Majors at age 21?

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) Can someone tell me why Washington is so appealing if Turner isn't involved? Giolito has already had TJ and didn't do much of anything at the big league level, and Robles is a 19 year old in A ball. The Sox can't develop a player like him. You get two top 10 prospects according to MLB Pipeline - without Turner coming back. If you can't get the Bregmans of the world which is being said, you're starting packages with top 30+ guys from the Dodgers and Astros. The only other team that could match Washington's package would be Boston starting with Devers/Kopech/Groome. This is all assuming no team parts with the elite guy who's made his MLB debut this year. If someone does, go to a different team. I agree with you on the Giolito TJS, it's scary and leaves questions. Washington seems the most desperate, as well.

QUOTE (ChiSox1917 @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 07:13 PM) Any reason the Yankees aren't in the Sale sweepstakes? I love their farm system. Cause they know their prospect depth and talent is going to lead to lots of future success...

No Edwin now for the Stros? Or do they double down?

Jacob Lindgren was non-tendered by the Yanks. 23 year old southpaw with 6 years of control left. He could be an interesting pen guy. 14.3 K/9 in the Minors, with a BB/9 a little over 5. Described as a guy with a wipeout slider and a fastball that touches 95.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 09:28 PM) I don't care one way or another. He's better than the other AAAA bums the Sox have run out there. $3MM is pocket change to a real franchise. a rounding error. shows how bad our minors are that they can't come up with someone better.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 09:07 PM) Avi will never be a good hitter. It is his approach to at-bats and his baseball IQ that is not at a major league level. He's had well over a thousand at bats already. What do you expect to change at this point? He is a finished product. And even if he did have short term success, he hasn't shown he can adjust to pitchers besides swinging at the first pitch. He won't be a DH for us when the team is good again so I have no idea what your point is in trotting him out there. He's not a prospect anymore. Alright, this is gonna be the final time I reply to this thread. I don't care how many ABs he's had in the Majors. Half of them should have been in the Minors to begin with. As far as I'm concerned, he has 413 AB (2016) while he's actually tried a swing that isn't complete horse s***. His old swing was not conducive to any type of hard contact or power. While still inconsistent, look at he video on youtube of him in 2016. Throw the numbers out the window and forget his name is Avisail Garcia. I guarantee you'll love what you see in the admittedly few highlights I'm referring to. He's a finished product? Really? I'm simply saying to give up on a 25 year old who, BTW, heavily improved his exit velocities and launch angles in 2016, ya know, this past season, is not wise - just because you hate what you have seen so far. Keep an open mind dude. My original point which has been taken way out of context by a few of you guys. Our team is disgusting as it currently stands. The addition of Avi as a DH strictly, is not going to hurt a supposed rebuilding and otherwise trash team, until you have legitimate replacements. You guys would rather see 27 year old Coats at DH, who in my opinion is a AAAA player? Just like your opinion is that Avi is a AAAA player. Delmonico is the only other decent DH option you guys have come up with - as the roster currently stands. 1 WAR = an 8 million dollar salary in the current MLB marketplace. Avisail Garcia just got paid 3 million dollars. He got paid what he's been worth thus far. This move doesn't break the bank and it isn't taking the DH spot away from some super talented prospect. Maybe time will prove me wrong, maybe it'll prove you guys wrong, maybe it'll prove all of us wrong. Rymer Liriano has been the most talented guy mentioned in this thread, and I'd rather see him in LF than at DH. Until we get better options, yes, I personally would rather see more of Avisail Garcia than the other equally illegitimate options we have at DH. If we get AJ Reed or someone of the like, cool, get rid of Avi with 0 complaints from me. This is the American League. We won't have a rotating DH spot until we have enough talent on the roster to rotate, which we're not even close to having enough. It's about where we currently are as an organization, not that I think Avi is going to for sure become a stud all of a sudden. If we were still "going for it" I would have my pitchfork out too. The likely and worst-case scenario is that he still sucks and costs the Sox 3 million. I'm not delusional - I'm simply not red hot angry like many posters here at the prospect of signing such a player for 3 million dollars, because they hate him or have "seen enough". Enough with the crucifixion of someone for having an opinion that differs from yours.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 08:47 PM) Lmao, could you imagine if he had a sub .700 ops and was a detriment in the field? That would be hilarious... He has a .638 OPS in the Majors...hilarious. Coats will be 27 in a couple months. Engel had a .750 OPS in the Minors in 2016. I'd love to see what that would be in the Majors.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 08:17 PM) Want to name something he does well? I honestly can't think of anything and that is hard to do when it comes to major leaguers. Why does he have to "do something well" in the present to not be written off completely at his age? I don't want him to be a fielder at all.... I'm advocating him to be DH on a loser team. But you want something he does well so bad...he led the Majors in OF assists in 2015. Obviously the fielding blows - but hey, you asked. He isn't some talentless schmuck because he hasn't lived up to your guys' OPS standards against the greatest baseball players in the world by age 25.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 08:05 PM) So what is horrid? A DH who can't put up a 700 ops is useful how exactly? Maybe if we start comparing him to Thames, Joyce and Viciedo. Yeah, announcing that a 3 million dollar signing of a 25 year old player is the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of White Sox baseball is pretty ridiculous. I'm not going to keep arguing with you guys. I've given facts and thoughts backing my opinion in about a dozen posts in this thread. You have yours, that's fine. I'm not gonna beat a dead dog.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 08:09 PM) What's the definition of insanity again? Out with the old and in with the new. Liriano and Coats should get Avi's ab's, we at least haven't seen them fail over and over already. Hell, throw Engel out there. Just not Avi. Lmao Coats.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 07:51 PM) I wish I had your confidence that re-signing last year's bad starters means that they are now placeholders. The only way signing Lawrie makes any sense to me is if they are moving he or Saladino to 3rd as, indeed, placeholders. Here were last year's mere placeholders: Jimmy Rollins: $2,000,000 Austin Jackson: $5,000,000 Dioner Navarro: $4,000,000 Mat Latos: $3,000,000 Matt Albers: $2,000,000 Jacob Turner: $1,500,000 Alex Avila: $2,500,000 Total $20,000,000 Anyone who criticizes such astuteness is clueless. Those guys were not placeholders. That was the Sox' poor attempt at competing with sh**y players. Which is exactly why we need to rebuild. If we rebuild - truly rebuild - Avi and Lawrie are placeholders or gone if we get better players this offseason. Lawrie has 1 year until free agency.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 07:54 PM) I get the age factor and even the lack of minor league seasoning, but like I said he's shown no progress. After 1,500 career plate appearances, I just don't see it happening. Anything is possible, but the odds are incredibly against Avi ever becoming an above average hitter at this point. I agree with you completely. He most likely will amount to nothing. But I have a sliver of hope for him. And don't hate bringing a guy like him back for 3 million for all the reasons I've mentioned throughout this thread. I've just been arguing in Avi's favor because it was getting so much hate when the news broke, when in reality, it's not as horrid as many posters have made it out to be.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 07:31 PM) Donaldson put up a .884 OPS in his second full season which was in Oakland to boot. Turner put up an .897 OPS in his full season with the Dodgers and was still below a 1,000 plate appearances entering that season. Both of these guys provide defensive utility. Encarnacion, a better positional comp, put up a .831 OPS in his second season. Honestly, none of these are good comparisons to Avi's situation. My point was that Donaldson wasn't good in the Majors until age 27. He simply struggled in the Minors before making a change compared to Avi, who's been struggling on the big stage in the Majors. Check out Edwin's numbers in 2009 and 2010. Everyone and their mother was calling him a bust. Until he made a change. Albeit he had some success in the Majors previously.