2 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said:

That's probably for the better in the grand scheme. Officers put themselves on the line and that's their duty. They can't retreat. So if they end up making a mistake and killing someone because of it, it probably shouldn't be criminal except in extreme cases.

Here though, the video is so damn compelling. When it's just witnesses testifying with photographs it's more difficult to decide that the officer is not being honest. Here you're seeing how the shooting played out and it's easier to put yourself in the shoes of the officer and decide if you would have acted in the same way.

I thought Van Dyke actually performed reasonably well on the stand. He answered questions, was humble, emotional, vulnerable, etc. I think they did a good job of arguing and providing evidence that the perspective of the video may be misleading. 

Still, that video. Just rolling up, hopping out of the car and then shooting within six seconds. Not a lot of time to reasonably decide if McDonald is a true danger.

 

I agree that when i read juror instructions I was like "this is impossible".

One thing though, his therapist(?) mentioned prior to arriving on scene he was saying things such as "why haven't they shot the guy?" which to me seems so pre-meditated and preparing to act prior to "feeling threatened".

He was also a defense witness and had a great line about how he acted reasonably based on his perception, which is such an absurd and hilarious-if-it-wasn't-so-tragic standard.

Basically, it's very hard to act unreasonably based on your perception, we all react base on our perceptions, but also we must trust officer perceptions as always being correct because we don't understand danger of job. So ... there you go.

11 minutes ago, bmags said:

I agree that when i read juror instructions I was like "this is impossible".

One thing though, his therapist(?) mentioned prior to arriving on scene he was saying things such as "why haven't they shot the guy?" which to me seems so pre-meditated and preparing to act prior to "feeling threatened".

He was also a defense witness and had a great line about how he acted reasonably based on his perception, which is such an absurd and hilarious-if-it-wasn't-so-tragic standard.

Basically, it's very hard to act unreasonably based on your perception, we all react base on our perceptions, but also we must trust officer perceptions as always being correct because we don't understand danger of job. So ... there you go.

I mean to be fair he's hearing over the radio that the guy is out of his mind and slashing police tires with a knife... I would bet 9 out of 10 times someone getting that close to a cop car with a deadly weapon (and using it) ends up shot.

 

edit: I guess the quote from Van Dyke is "I guess we'll have to shoot him" so...yeah, I think you're right.

Edited October 4, 20187 yr by Jenksismyhero

4 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said:

I mean to be fair he's hearing over the radio that the guy is out of his mind and slashing police tires with a knife... I would bet 9 out of 10 times someone getting that close to a cop car with a deadly weapon (and using it) ends up shot.

And yet shooters who had left a scene have often been recovered without murdering them. He can't just assume the person needs to be shot to death to be incapacitated. Maybe he should have thought twice when it seemed like the person should be shot, but was not, by officers at the scene.

What time is verdict on this? I am going to be at a CPS high school on the south side tomorrow. My work says we have to download some app and confirm our safety. 

6 minutes ago, raBBit said:

What time is verdict on this? I am going to be at a CPS high school on the south side tomorrow. My work says we have to download some app and confirm our safety. 

There isn’t a time for a verdict.  It is whenever the jury reaches one.

48 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

There isn’t a time for a verdict.  It is whenever the jury reaches one.

But it is expected to happen tomorrow? Is there a deadline before it becomes a hung jury?

51 minutes ago, raBBit said:

But it is expected to happen tomorrow? Is there a deadline before it becomes a hung jury?

Usually hung juries only happen when the jury decides they're not making progress, I don't believe there's ever a case I've heard of where a judge sets a deadline. If a jury decides they need the time but they're making progress no one will want to shut them down.

Two alternate jurors that were excused say they were leaning towards a guilty verdict.

6 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

Two alternate jurors that were excused say they were leaning towards a guilty verdict.

It's important to note that these alternate jurors were not privvy to any of the actual jury deliberation. Still interesting.

You only need one for a hung jury, but probably not a good sign that the two alternates didn't buy his self-defense argument. 

I still think they find him not guilty of 1st but guilty of 2nd, or even the aggravated battery (which for some reason carries a higher sentence than 2nd degree according to WGN this morning)

1 minute ago, Jenksismyhero said:

You only need one for a hung jury, but probably not a good sign that the two alternates didn't buy his self-defense argument. 

I still think they find him not guilty of 1st but guilty of 2nd, or even the aggravated battery (which for some reason carries a higher sentence than 2nd degree according to WGN this morning)

That's interesting. wider range (lower floor higher ceiling of sentencing)?

2nd degree is 4-20 years, aggravated battery with a firearm IIRC is 6-30

edit: it looks like 2nd degree you can get out half way through your sentence but aggravated battery has the 85% minimum. 

The jurors don't know the sentencing guidelines though, so they can't factor that in.

Edited October 5, 20187 yr by Jenksismyhero

14 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said:

You only need one for a hung jury, but probably not a good sign that the two alternates didn't buy his self-defense argument. 

I still think they find him not guilty of 1st but guilty of 2nd, or even the aggravated battery (which for some reason carries a higher sentence than 2nd degree according to WGN this morning)

 

2 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said:

2nd degree is 4-20 years, aggravated battery with a firearm IIRC is 6-30

It's because second-degree murder is justified by various factors (either sudden and intense provocation or the unreasonable belief in the need to use self-defense) whereas aggravated battery is not justified at all. 

Some high schools in the city are moving football games to Saturday afternoon in fear of problems.

52 minutes ago, maggsmaggs said:

 

It's because second-degree murder is justified by various factors (either sudden and intense provocation or the unreasonable belief in the need to use self-defense) whereas aggravated battery is not justified at all. 

That makes sense. I probably oversimplify in my head 1st being premeditated and 2nd being not.

Verdict to be released at 2 PM that's a rumor btw 

 

Edited October 5, 20187 yr by Harry Chappas

This verdict has me so nervous. ??

Verdict is in, shortly to be announced 

Pretty quick deliberation.

CPD was told 1:45

Okay, I hope nothing goes bad here one way or another -- slight disclosure -- I live around the corner from Van Dyke (no, I've never met him, and no, I don't know him) -- and our kids attend the same school.

I haven't listend to it, but my wife has been listening to WBEZ's "16 shots" podcast and really enjoys it

 

https://www.wbez.org/shows/16-shots/55c63c72-d518-4ad9-b5dc-dd0d841d79a7

7 minutes ago, Y2HH said:

This verdict has me so nervous. ??

I agree with you and the thing is I am not sure if I am afraid of my and my family's safety, the city and the people, the police, Van Dyke......while I do not want to politicize this but if he is found guilty of 2nd degree or something different those "looking for justice" will not be happy with anything.  I also feel bad for him as I cannot imagine having my life in teh balance like that   

34 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said:

Pretty quick deliberation.

Makes me think they found him guilty. Hard to imagine everyone saying not guilty so quick.

Guilt of 2nd degree murder