**World Soxtalk Championship Wrestling Thread V**

[iWiN4PreP]

I'm with everyone here.

 

1) They screwed up by having Shinsake not win at a main PPV. He will likely win at HIAC and who cares... This was a moment that *should* have been special, but once again, WWE does not give a f***.

2) Women's division is absolutely awful. Charlotte needs a lengthy run as they revamp everything there. Everything they did was so promising only for it to fail. Loved when Charlotte came over from the draft and had her turn face and had the villian squad, but they butchered it by having 6-woman matches all the damn time.

3) Shane/KO is perfectly fine and operating well. Bravo

4) Jinder is awful, why is he still here as champ, it's an insult.

5) Should of had a better road for Bobby Roode, but yeh, hoping the Dolph/Roode stuff goes well. SD should have the championship centered around Styles/KO/Naku/Roode. I mean, that is f***ing awesome! But no.. they have Jinder/Rusev/Orton junk.

6) Tag team between New Day/Usos have produced good matched, but good God how long has it gone on with no other credible team present. It's breathtakingly stupid how these guys can't book a tag team division properly.

 

[TheChrisSamsa]

I'm with everyone here.

 

1) They screwed up by having Shinsake not win at a main PPV. He will likely win at HIAC and who cares... This was a moment that *should* have been special, but once again, WWE does not give a f***.

2) Women's division is absolutely awful. Charlotte needs a lengthy run as they revamp everything there. Everything they did was so promising only for it to fail. Loved when Charlotte came over from the draft and had her turn face and had the villian squad, but they butchered it by having 6-woman matches all the damn time.

3) Shane/KO is perfectly fine and operating well. Bravo

4) Jinder is awful, why is he still here as champ, it's an insult.

5) Should of had a better road for Bobby Roode, but yeh, hoping the Dolph/Roode stuff goes well. SD should have the championship centered around Styles/KO/Naku/Roode. I mean, that is f***ing awesome! But no.. they have Jinder/Rusev/Orton junk.

6) Tag team between New Day/Usos have produced good matched, but good God how long has it gone on with no other credible team present. It's breathtakingly stupid how these guys can't book a tag team division properly.

 

 

 

Can add the botched Money In The Bank run for Baron Corbin and how much he sucks?

[Y2HH]

Ever since the brand reshuffle, Smackdown has lost it's luster with me -- it went from the main show I'd watch and care about to an afterthought. The only things left on SD I care about are AJ and KO, and for the most part, they're being wasted in mid-card feuds while someone like Jinder sits atop the brand...

 

...annnnnnnnd that's why RAW is now the main show I watch.

 

Practically everything on RAW is superior to SD.

 

And as much as people b**** about the Women's division, I actually like the RAW women's division (of course, Bliss is there, so I'm obviously biased), but just looking at it objectively, I think it's better, and with Asuka coming in, it can't get worse.

 

I hardly watch SD anymore outside of the "you have to see this" such as the VKM vs KO segment.

 

Looking forward the No Mercy, not really looking forward to HIAC.

 

We are likely witnessing the end of the brand split here, there is really no reason to even have it at this point since they're doing nothing to differentiate the products anyway. Both look like WWE tv with different colors, and now that they have the same announcer on both, it's just -- there is no point in even pretending anymore.

[iWiN4PreP]

Y2HH, I'm with you on all of your post.

 

On Raw's Women's division: It is pretty bad, but nowhere near the trash-heep that is smackdown's woman's division. Just having the time to highlight Bliss/Banks/Bayley/Nia and some others is nicer then smackdown's rushed segments/matches with no names and no momentum.

 

I never thought of the brand split ending, but with that point you bring up it makes some sense. I have no idea why they would do a brand split only to: a) obviously have SD as the lesser brand b) not differentiate the products.

It seems like it is obvious: Have two distinct, equal brands that focus on the great talent. Market them like they are better than one another, have a cross feud once every big PPV (SS, WM), and walouh. Instead, they focus on advertising so much bulls*** and can't find a way to fit in there roster into the few hours they have. Ugly! The crazy thing is how much time they actually have now. They have tons of PPVs and weekly shows, but can't produce a coherent product from top to bottom.

 

It's so shockingly bad, that I am so interested in it and continue to post about it here even though I only read the results these days. I'll try to tune into PPVs tho. Looking forward to No Mercy. Braun vs. Brock should be really cool and while Roman isn't my favourite, they have him in the perfect segment with Cena. The rest of the PPV is fine to me as well. Happy to see Miz vs. Jordan to highlight the IC title and to give some rub to Jordan (even though I think his storyline is one of the worst storylines ever). Happy to see Ambrose/Rollins being used properly in a tag team match making the tag division there feel pretty good.

I'm not too the Finn/Wyatt/Elias/Apollo stuff going on. Will see tho. Bray is dead to me.

[iWiN4PreP]

So, uhh, John Cena Sr. apparently isn't a fan of Charlotte Flair's work : http://rajah.com/node/58060

 

Why? I have no f***ing idea. Charlotte is the best female competitor ever in my opinion (in the WWE/WWF that is, no idea elsewhere).

She has the total package of amazing in ring work and great charisma.

 

How can anyone not like Charlotte’s work?

[Brian]

Funny that he says all Alexa has is the look and body. JOHN CENA Sr said that.

[Brian]

Bye Bye Cesaro's front teeth. Great tag match.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Very good match, Ambrose with the most unexpected kickout I remember in WWE in a long time.

[GGajewski18]

Tag match was fantastic, but of course it had Cesaro in it. He's great in the ring.

 

Alexa Bliss remains the best woman in the division

[Brian]

This show has been really good, IMO. All matches.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Lol wwe with an absolute middle finger to their fans

[Brian]

Lol wwe with an absolute middle finger to their fans

 

Cena going away for awhile. Why would he go over?

If Roman has learned and can take the next step, persona wise, it’ll be worth it.

 

 

[fathom]

Love Braun but that ending made him look terrible

[Brian]

Love Braun but that ending made him look terrible

 

Definitely should’ve taken multiple F5s to be beaten

[iWiN4PreP]

That main event was another in a series of why brock lesnar sucks so god damn much. It's awful.

 

His matches are the biggest hype in the world and they last 5 minutes and are unbelievably anti-climatic and serve no purpose.

 

Great PPV up until the last 3 matches. Enzo is silly, Brock sucks, and Reigns is reigns. BOGUS. That main event literally gets a 1/5, 2 stars if im generous.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Cena going away for awhile. Why would he go over?

If Roman has learned and can take the next step, persona wise, it’ll be worth it.

He took 5 AAs then just did two moves of doom. It was s***ty even if he had to go over.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Cena going away for awhile. Why would he go over?

If Roman has learned and can take the next step, persona wise, it’ll be worth it.

 

The "if" in that statement tells you a lot about Roman as a performer.

[Brian]

He took 5 AAs then just did two moves of doom. It was s***ty even if he had to go over.

 

I won't disagree with the constant kick out of everything. It does get old.

As great as the tag match was, Dean kicking out after Cesaro powerbombed Seth on him from the top rope, then Sheamus getting pinned after a simple DDT was kinda meh.

 

Did Brock and Braun ever leave the ring? After that build up and what happened at SummerSlam, them not doing a table or guardrail spot, seemed to hinder the match.

[Y2HH]

I won't disagree with the constant kick out of everything. It does get old.

As great as the tag match was, Dean kicking out after Cesaro powerbombed Seth on him from the top rope, then Sheamus getting pinned after a simple DDT was kinda meh.

 

Did Brock and Braun ever leave the ring? After that build up and what happened at SummerSlam, them not doing a table or guardrail spot, seemed to hinder the match.

 

What's funny about these false finishes and finisher kickouts are how often they seem to happen, yet very specific people are massively protected.

 

Randy Orton aside, two other examples of this are Dean Ambrose and Alexa's DDT's -- nobody f***ing kicks out of them. They even went out of their way to show Nia Jax avoiding taking her DDT to protect it.

 

They need to go back to that.

 

It's impossible to get a move over if everyone kicks out of it constantly, and it removes a very important aspect of storytelling from the match. Using the above example, Alexa is small and cunning, thus she should always be trying to hit that finish and her opponents should be actively trying to avoid it, this sells the match. If everyone can kick out of it, you can't tell that story in the ring, and it detracts from the action because it just throws it in the audiences face these are choreographed spot fests, and until all spots are hit, the match won't end. In a real wrestling match, if you had a move that would end it, your goal would be trying to hit that f***ing move. Period.

[Y2HH]

As for last night, I really enjoyed the show overall, but the Brock vs Strowman match was the worst match on the card and a total letdown.

 

What's funny, the woman's match should have been a total clusterf***, but damn if they didn't all find a way to make that interesting and fun. The woman's match practically stole the show for me. It's right up there with the tag-match in terms of building excitement and showing a few spots that actually had some impact.

[Brian]

What's funny about these false finishes and finisher kickouts are how often they seem to happen, yet very specific people are massively protected.

 

Randy Orton aside, two other examples of this are Dean Ambrose and Alexa's DDT's -- nobody f***ing kicks out of them. They even went out of their way to show Nia Jax avoiding taking her DDT to protect it.

 

They need to go back to that.

 

It's impossible to get a move over if everyone kicks out of it constantly, and it removes a very important aspect of storytelling from the match. Using the above example, Alexa is small and cunning, thus she should always be trying to hit that finish and her opponents should be actively trying to avoid it, this sells the match. If everyone can kick out of it, you can't tell that story in the ring, and it detracts from the action because it just throws it in the audiences face these are choreographed spot fests, and until all spots are hit, the match won't end. In a real wrestling match, if you had a move that would end it, your goal would be trying to hit that f***ing move. Period.

 

Seems like the F5 is being protected so Reigns can kick out of like 5 next April. Other than that, yeah.

Bully Ray has said in interviews that only 1 person has ever kicked out of the 3D and they did that because it was part of the story that led to their break up in TNA.

 

I don't pop for the constant kick outs like the live crowds do. But I loved them when Okada and Omega were doing them, so who knows.

[iWiN4PreP]

Few more thoughts on the day after.

 

1) The Bad - We get more of the same with Roman Reigns, this time over such an opponent like Cena. The whole finisher spam debate has been done in this thread, I generally agree with the sentiments by many here. Boring and dull. But to be fair, this is the same s*** they've been feeding down our throats since RR 2015, so, it only can be considered 'bad' at this point.

 

2) The Very Bad -- Enzo Amore and the Cruiserweight Championship humiliation. Think about the division. Think about Neville's reign. Yup. This is what everything has come down to. Simply ugly. Almost unanimously a s***ty decision due to how it reflects on the credibility of the division. This is WWE 101 on s***ting on the credibility of the product to try to increase buzz and marketing. Very, very bad.

 

3) The terribly ugly -- Brock Lesnar. My hatred for this competitor has now surpassed my dislike for Roman Reigns. Why? Because this guy has the most hyped up matches repeatedly, only to completely fail every single time. I can not remember a good match with him in years. This goes back to the Wrestlemania again Dean Ambrose. I posted my thoughts on that in the thread here on Soxtalk and was shocked at how lame the turnout was for that match. It continued on by defeating Orton at SS in a few seconds, getting beat by Goldberg in 30 seconds. Putting on an admittedly excellent few minutes with Goldberg at WM (but it was only that.. a few minutes = let down). His latest matches with Joe and Strowman are some of the best storyline build ups this industry has had in years, yet both of the matches had me and most fans left with hands in the air due to how anti-climatic and terrible the matches were.

The annoying aspect? There's so much potential here in every match. Strowman vs. Lesnar was the reason I tuned in, these guys should have had a fantastic match, instead we got dog s***. My guess is that Lesnar can no longer go the full time and is out of shape in that regards. He just doesn't have it anymore because he hasn't produced in 3 years+.

 

4) The OK -- Woman's match was great at No Mercy, but the fact still stands that they throw all of these women in multi-woman matches and it hurts the credibility here. I'll wait and see where things go, but it hasn't been good in the past year. Alexa's push is at the forefront here. She's an excellent talent, but the way they handle her has been hurting the division.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

Ron, why do you even watch wrestling? You don’t like it very much

[iWiN4PreP]

Likely 'cause I grew up watching it 24/7 and being the biggest fan.

[Brian]

I have a buddy who complains about everything, like Ron does. I'm convinced he doesn't even try and enjoy anything. It's no fun to talk to him about wrestling anymore and it's sad because we used to watch PPVs in his basement growing up.

He beats a dead horse with his opinions, like Ron, as well. Maybe they're the same.