Gun Violence in America

[caulfield12]

More people will have been killed by guns in America in 2017 and 2018 (following current rates) than died in all ten plus years of the Vietnam War (well, American soldiers, specifically).

 

How is that not a problem?

 

Our rate of deaths per 1.000 people is almost eight times that of Canada, which is second in the world. If you add up #2-8 in the world, it STILL doesn’t equal the US rate, just like our military spending trendline.

 

95%-4% want enhanced background checks.

 

79%-20% want a ban on certain automatic rifles.

Edited February 16, 2018 by caulfield12

[ptatc]

It’s not about the size of the round, it’s the fact that someone with an AR-15 can fire off an insane number of rounds in a short period of time (with a relatively high level of precision to boot), especially when combined with high capacity magazines. There are plenty of other rifles that could be used for sport shooting that aren’t nearly as deadly as an AR-15. Again, I respect your right for gun ownership, but I can’t justify assault weapons being legal when they’re literally used in mass shootings on what seems like a weekly basis. Time for them to go and see if things get better.

You can fire off any oremore rounds from a semi automatic AR 15 than anyother semi automatic rifle. Your finger can only pull the trigger so fast.

 

The full automatic versions of all rifles are already illegal, assault style or not.

[caulfield12]

Officials Haven't Found Evidence Linking Florida Shooting Suspect To White Supremacists (UPDATE)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-supremacis...-181802597.html

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-h...ting/index.html

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/opinions/ame...rini/index.html

America’s Cult Of Guns

 

As a Christian, I'm appalled by the hypocrisy I see among others of my faith, particularly those who are our leaders in government and show eagerness to participate in this cult. They worship false idols in the form of weapons, and turn their back on the teachings of Jesus, who did not equivocate when it came to violence.

 

The Sermon on the Mount is unmatched as a spiritual and ethical guide, as when Jesus declared: "You have learned that they were told, 'Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.' But what I tell you is this: Do not set yourself against the man who wrongs you. If someone slaps you on the right cheek, turn and offer him your left." (Matthew 5:38-40)

 

It is safe to say that nobody in the cult of guns listens to Jesus.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

You can fire off any oremore rounds from a semi automatic AR 15 than anyother semi automatic rifle. Your finger can only pull the trigger so fast.

 

The full automatic versions of all rifles are already illegal, assault style or not.

 

Fully automatic weapons are heavily restricted and thus very expensive but they aren't illegal.

[caulfield12]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2245877...school-shooting

 

Anthony Rizzo joins the gun control discussion at Parkland HS vigil

[ptatc]

Fully automatic weapons are heavily restricted and thus very expensive but they aren't illegal.

I thought they were illegal. I have no issue with full auto being illegal and banned. Those aren't good for anything but mass killings. However, that wouldn't stop this as it was the semi-auto version.

[RockRaines]

That's fine but you aren't being realistic. You also don't think that hunting or target practice are useful pat times or that people use these weapons for protection of their livelihoods against coyotes and other predators.

Actual hunters aren’t using these to hunt for sport or to defend themselves. Just stop it. There is no need for it.

[ptatc]

Actual hunters aren’t using these to hunt for sport or to defend themselves. Just stop it. There is no need for it.

Using semi-automatic rifles? They do all the time. They also use AR 15 for sport all the time. they aren't much use in hunting though. They are fairly useless as I said because of they're lack of power.

[RockRaines]

Using semi-automatic rifles? They do all the time. They also use AR 15 for sport all the time. they aren't much use in hunting though. They are fairly useless as I said because of they're lack of power.

Fake, terrible hunters use a rifle that’s main function is to spray and pray. It’s a terrible gun for home defense and for hunting. It’s only function is to engage an enemy with a high rate of fire. It’s also a profit center because of how modular and “cool looking” it is. It serve no useful purpose since there are guns that are more effective at pretty much any useful activity. And I’d say that about most if not all semi automatic rifles.

[StrangeSox]

I thought they were illegal. I have no issue with full auto being illegal and banned. Those aren't good for anything but mass killings. However, that wouldn't stop this as it was the semi-auto version.

 

They're rarely used in crimes. Legally owned ones have been used like twice in many decades.

 

To me, that shows that heavy restrictions and registration can actually work.

[StrangeSox]

Fake, terrible hunters use a rifle that’s main function is to spray and pray. It’s a terrible gun for home defense and for hunting. It’s only function is to engage an enemy with a high rate of fire. It’s also a profit center because of how modular and “cool looking” it is. It serve no useful purpose since there are guns that are more effective at pretty much any useful activity. And I’d say that about most if not all semi automatic rifles.

 

The toxic fetishizing culture surrounding guns and in particular the military look alike ones are part of the problem imo.

 

[ptatc]

Fake, terrible hunters use a rifle that’s main function is to spray and pray. It’s a terrible gun for home defense and for hunting. It’s only function is to engage an enemy with a high rate of fire. It’s also a profit center because of how modular and “cool looking” it is. It serve no useful purpose since there are guns that are more effective at pretty much any useful activity. And I’d say that about most if not all semi automatic rifles.

This is very true for the full auto version.

 

This is not true for semi autos. Each indivdiual trigger pull is not a "spray and pray" type of sequence.

 

I agree people only like it because it looks cool. The fact is its not a useful weapon for hunting due to the small caliber. But it works well for target practice as its light and easy to use.

 

As I said I wouldnt care if they did ban this particular rifle, however my fear is that people would instead obtain a higher caliber rifle and do more damage.

[ptatc]

The toxic fetishizing culture surrounding guns and in particular the military look alike ones are part of the problem imo.

Agreed on this part.

[caulfield12]

A year ago, Trump signed a bill repealing a rule the Obama administration put in place after Sandy Hook that prevented people receiving Social Security benefits for mental disabilities from purchasing guns.

 

On Thursday, hours before his public remarks, he tweeted that “neighbors and classmates” should have reported the shooter earlier—while his son Donald Trump Jr. stoked the flames of anti-deep state fervor within the Trump base, liking a tweet from Townhall columnist Kurt Schlichter that said: “the FBI was too busy trying to undermine the president to bother with doing it’s [sic] freaking job” and track the shooter’s threats online.

 

Aside from a presidential proclamation lowering flags to half mast, neither he nor anyone else at the White House said anything more about the shooting after his remarks, even after the leader of a white nationalist group in Florida said the shooter had trained with its members, or after CBS News verified an Instagram account belonging to the shooter in which he set a profile picture of himself wearing a red Make America Great Again hat.

 

Politico.com

 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/16/politics...gton/index.html

Washington’s political impotence on full display

Edited February 16, 2018 by caulfield12

[RockRaines]

This is very true for the full auto version.

 

This is not true for semi autos. Each indivdiual trigger pull is not a "spray and pray" type of sequence.

 

I agree people only like it because it looks cool. The fact is its not a useful weapon for hunting due to the small caliber. But it works well for target practice as its light and easy to use.

 

As I said I wouldnt care if they did ban this particular rifle, however my fear is that people would instead obtain a higher caliber rifle and do more damage.

The semi auto version can effectively fire 45 rounds a minute bone stock. With a legal modification or two you can get that up to 900 rounds per minute with zero issue.

Edited February 16, 2018 by RockRaines

[ptatc]

The semi auto version can effectively fire 45 rounds a minute bone stock. With a legal modification or two you can get that up to 900 rounds per minute with zero issue.

I'm not which legal modification you are referring to but there is no weapon that can effectively fire 900 unless you have an extremely long belt fed ammo system. Far too many clip changes for that to happen.

 

The weapon probably can fire that many rounds but it wouldn't be effective. Your finger would need to be really fast.

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by ptatc

[RockRaines]

I'm not which legal modification you are referring to but there is no weapon that can effectively fire 900 unless you have an extremely long belt fed ammo system. Far too many clip changes for that to happen.

 

The weapon probably can fire that many rounds but it wouldn't be effective. Your finger would need to be really fast.

Thats a fire rate not a capacity comment. AR-15's have 100 round drums and those can be emptied within seconds. Both modifications are entirely legal.

 

A simple paintball style firing technique can empty a 30 round clip in less than a min. Spray and pray.

[ptatc]

Thats a fire rate not a capacity comment. AR-15's have 100 round drums and those can be emptied within seconds. Both modifications are entirely legal.

 

A simple paintball style firing technique can empty a 30 round clip in less than a min. Spray and pray.

I still disagree that anyone could fire 100 rounds in seconds. It's just not humanly possible. Mechanically, maybe.

 

I would have no issues with banning all of those modifications. As a matter of fact how about making all clips over say 10 rounds illegal. i think they would have a better chance with that than banning the weapons entirely.

[ptatc]

The rational for Americans having easy to access to semi-automatic rifles died a long time ago. Something has to come soon.

This is the key. I would go a step further, NO weapons should have easy access. The problem they need to solve is how to effectively restrict it.

[RockRaines]

I still disagree that anyone could fire 100 rounds in seconds. It's just not humanly possible. Mechanically, maybe.

 

I would have no issues with banning all of those modifications. As a matter of fact how about making all clips over say 10 rounds illegal. i think they would have a better chance with that than banning the weapons entirely.

The kick on an AR is pretty light, it would be easy to empty that many without too much of a spray. Especially if you have been training.

 

I'm personally in favor of tiers of ownership based on qualification and certification. If we arent going to get rid of these weapons, make them harder and harder to get the more dangerous they are. Tier 1 could be a tiny little pea shooter - maybe thats just a background check and cool off period. I think anything with stopping power or that can be concealed should be subject to the same training I had for my permit. And so on.

 

I think we've also just proven that people will do anything for a tax break, including selling their parents down the river. Give a $500 tax credit to anyone who turns in certain models of guns. Make it voluntary.

[Dick Allen]

Little Marco said yesterday stricter gun laws wouldn't have stopped this massacre. I really don't know how he can say that. Maybe it wouldn't, but to totally dismiss it is his NRA donations talking. I hope voters do something about him. These Florida shootings may be hitting close enough to home for them to realize what this dope is about.

[RockRaines]

Little Marco said yesterday stricter gun laws wouldn't have stopped this massacre. I really don't know how he can say that. Maybe it wouldn't, but to totally dismiss it is his NRA donations talking. I hope voters do something about him. These Florida shootings may be hitting close enough to home for them to realize what this dope is about.

There is a reason florida has some of the most lax gun laws in the country...

[Dick Allen]

There is a reason florida has some of the most lax gun laws in the country...

It's a weird state. A bunch of gay guys getting slaughtered may not move the needle for some of those people, but kids are a different story.

 

But then again, as Paul Ryan states, now is not the time for knee jerk reactions. We still have to let the Sandy Hook incident settle into our systems. Maybe when he is done with politics and collecting money from gun groups he could see it might be time.

 

House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) has been arguing against what he calls a “knee-jerk” political response to mass shootings for years.

 

 

 

Ryan has presented an almost identical speech again and again — and again. He repeated it Thursday after the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, killed 17. “We don’t just knee-jerk before we even have all of the facts and the data,” Ryan said in an interview with Indiana radio station WIBC

 

“If that sounds familiar, it is because it is,” Hayes said.

 

Roll tape. Ryan used the “knee-jerk” argument after the California mass shooting in San Bernardino in 2015 that claimed 14 lives, and after the shooting at the Umpqua Community College in Oregon the same year, which killed nine.

 

One thing Ryan did express concern about is mental illness. Last year, Congress passed, and President Donald Trump signed into law, a measure that rescinded barriers to gun ownership for the mentally ill.

 

Ryan received $177,000 in contributions from the National Rifle Association in the 2016 campaign cycle.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Pants Rowland]

Overall, this country can not handle the rights afforded it by the 2nd amendment. To me the argument of "mass shootings are not about guns, they are about mental health" is comparable to "the civil war was not fought about slavery, it was about states rights"

 

If this last shooting proves anything, it is that the system in place failed on many levels, including the mental health perspective. If we can't stop this guy Cruz with all the warning signs screaming at us, then we need a sweeping "knee jerk" repeal of the 2nd amendment; strict federal laws regarding firearms production, import, transport, sale, etc.; and implementation of rigid ownership restrictions at the state level.

 

In the meantime, the lawsuits against gun manufacturers, distributors, etc. need to pile up and hit them in their pocket book while all recipients of NRA political donations need to be outed loudly and frequently. If they are going to do the bidding of the NRA, they need to be identified for their complicity.

[Dick Allen]

Mark Bogen, the vice mayor of Florida's Broward County, said Friday that President Donald Trump's expected visit with the victims of the Parkland school shooting is "absolutely absurd."

 

"Him coming here is absolutely absurd, and he's a hypocrite," Bogen said of the President in an interview Friday with CNN's Fredricka Whitfield. "How can you come here and talk about how horrible it is when you support these laws?"

 

Bogen argued that Trump is a hypocrite because he supports the purchasing of assault weapons, "and then comes down here and wants to act as though this is horrible, and this shouldn't happen, but goes back to Washington and supports it."