https://sports.yahoo.com/10-degrees-forget-star-snubs-first-half-baseball-awards-far-interesting-060643878.html

Between Giolito, Kopech, and Hansen, the first half hasn't gone according to plan. 

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Between Giolito, Kopech, and Hansen, the first half hasn't gone according to plan. 

But between Fry, Cease, Collins, Rutherford, Basabe, Adolfo, Hamilton, Rivera, etc. it has gone as or better than planned. Win some, lose some 

I blame injuries more than performance. I think Kopech gets too much criticism here from what off the field stuff he was and likely still is going through. Eloy, Dunning, Hansen, Robert, etc. injuries have really sucked for this organization and this isn't even counting the lesser guys like Puckett, McClure, etc. Adolfo might be the only bullet we've dodged and he still needs to develop defensively in the OF too. 

Hasn't Giolito been much improved the last 5-7 starts he made (outside of the game against the Reds)?  Not saying he has been great as the strikeouts are still down and the walks are higher than you'd like, but he's certainly made progress.  

6 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Hasn't Giolito been much improved the last 5-7 starts he made (outside of the game against the Reds)?  Not saying he has been great as the strikeouts are still down and the walks are higher than you'd like, but he's certainly made progress.  

Lot of qualifiers just to say he's been better than absolute garbage for the past monthish. 

12 minutes ago, joejoedairy said:

Lot of qualifiers just to say he's been better than absolute garbage for the past monthish. 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that's why he used the word "progress." 

15 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that's why he used the word "progress." 

I like that they aren’t giving up on him.  This is his rookie year basically

51 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

I like that they aren’t giving up on him.  This is his rookie year basically

We have nothing to lose. Let him take his lumps. If he fails, we move on. 

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

I felt like that was one thing that was "missed" with a lot of people when the rebuild started. Out of your Top 6 prospects, if you hit on half that's a gigantic win. Guys are going to fail and bust out, while surprises will hopefully emerge to hedge those losses. It was always going to work that way. Just can't miss on all of them. 

Right. This is why I find it odd that people draw so many conclusions based on an AB or a start. Just wait and let things shake out. I honestly wouldn't surprised if guys like Collins and Rutherford ended up being the best of the bunch. 

3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Right. This is why I find it odd that people draw so many conclusions based on an AB or a start. Just wait and let things shake out. I honestly wouldn't surprised if guys like Collins and Rutherford ended up being the best of the bunch. 

If you have 4 guys who are legitimate top 10 prospects and none of them become stars then you have done something seriously, systematically wrong. Hell, if you count Rodon, this franchise could have 5 of them. If Gio busts, fine, but if you have Giolito, Rodon, Jiminez, Moncada, and Kopech, all of whom have gotten into the top 10 of prospect lists, and you don't wind up with like 8-10 all star appearances and a few top 10 MVP finishes amongst the group before guys are hitting free agency, then there is something seriously wrong with your development or your scouting because you managed to somehow specifically select the guys who were going to flop. That doesn't happen by accident. 

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

I sort of agree with Balta here that if that takes place, the Sox would have a major problem. Let's say the Sox Top 6 is:

Moncada

Eloy

Kopech

Robert

Giolito

Cease

(I'm leaving Madigral off for now) 

If any combination of those 3 reach their true potential, the Sox are in good shape moving forward. You hope it's 4-5, but even if 3 hit you're OK. If Collins or Blake are out producing them, unless it's because Collins is Mike Piazza, that would be no bueno. 

I agree. Everyone has busts, and there will be busts. You just have to hope your top guys have a lower rate than the guys with lower ceilings. 

I had the farm rankings from 4 years ago on here a while ago. They had a little write up for each organization. Top guys, breakout candidates....Most of them, unless you play in a very deep fantasy league, you would have to look up to find out where and if they play anymore.

Edited July 10, 20187 yr by Dick Allen

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

If you have 4 guys who are legitimate top 10 prospects and none of them become stars then you have done something seriously, systematically wrong. Hell, if you count Rodon, this franchise could have 5 of them. If Gio busts, fine, but if you have Giolito, Rodon, Jiminez, Moncada, and Kopech, all of whom have gotten into the top 10 of prospect lists, and you don't wind up with like 8-10 all star appearances and a few top 10 MVP finishes amongst the group before guys are hitting free agency, then there is something seriously wrong with your development or your scouting because you managed to somehow specifically select the guys who were going to flop. That doesn't happen by accident. 

If 4 of those guys bust and 4 others become All Stars, it doesn't matter. The end result is all that matters, not who makes it. 

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

If you have 4 guys who are legitimate top 10 prospects and none of them become stars then you have done something seriously, systematically wrong. Hell, if you count Rodon, this franchise could have 5 of them. If Gio busts, fine, but if you have Giolito, Rodon, Jiminez, Moncada, and Kopech, all of whom have gotten into the top 10 of prospect lists, and you don't wind up with like 8-10 all star appearances and a few top 10 MVP finishes amongst the group before guys are hitting free agency, then there is something seriously wrong with your development or your scouting because you managed to somehow specifically select the guys who were going to flop. That doesn't happen by accident. 

Then the idea of rebuilding with a franchise that can't develop young position players really did prove to be an incredibly dumb idea.

They really haven't developed any prospects of note since McCarthy. Every decent young player they got was MLB ready when they got them. You could have an argument for Quintana as they poached him from the jankees(/ozzie) but he did most of his development in their system. They have a 10 year track record of crap in every aspect of player development. 

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They really haven't developed any prospects of note since McCarthy. Every decent young player they got was MLB ready when they got them. You could have an argument for Quintana as they poached him from the jankees(/ozzie) but he did most of his development in their system. They have a 10 year track record of crap in every aspect of player development. 

He got to A ball with the Yankees. 

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He got to A ball with the Yankees. 

And jumped from A-ball to the big leagues by May 7.

30 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He got to A ball with the Yankees. 

 

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And jumped from A-ball to the big leagues by May 7.

Exactly my point Balta. I challenge anyone to name a player that the Sox drafted, spent two seasons in the Sox system and didn't completely suck once called up between 2006-2017, if they even made it to the majors. Marcus Semien is the closest and IIRC he was really bad until this year. 

Edited July 10, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman
Redundancy

30 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And jumped from A-ball to the big leagues by May 7.

So most of development happened at the major league level, after he wasn't good enough to get out of the low minors with the Yankees.

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So most of development happened at the major league level, after he wasn't good enough to get out of the low minors with the Yankees.

I'm ok with going to "The White Sox have been terrible at scouting and development for a decade, it is the #1 reason why they were a 5th place team in 2013 and 2014, it's the #1 reason why they were a 4th place team in 2015, 2016, and 2017, and if they don't solve that problem then regardless of whatever path they take, continuing to rebuild or going all-in with veterans again, they will remain a 4th-5th place team until that problem is fixed".

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I'm ok with going to "The White Sox have been terrible at scouting and development for a decade, it is the #1 reason why they were a 5th place team in 2013 and 2014, it's the #1 reason why they were a 4th place team in 2015, 2016, and 2017, and if they don't solve that problem then regardless of whatever path they take, continuing to rebuild or going all-in with veterans again, they will remain a 4th-5th place team until that problem is fixed".

And to continue that narrative, will continue to ignore positives in the developmental team by adding more qualifiers so as to disqualify any success stories.

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Then the idea of rebuilding with a franchise that can't develop young position players really did prove to be an incredibly dumb idea.

 

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And to continue that narrative, will continue to ignore positives in the developmental team by adding more qualifiers so as to disqualify any success stories.

Wait I'm lost, is the development team showing positives or can this franchise not develop young position players?

Just now, Balta1701 said:

 

Wait I'm lost, is the development team showing positives or can this franchise not develop young position players?

Me too.  Funny how that works.

I’m not sure how Anderson doesn’t count as a success story but whatever.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Me too.  Funny how that works.

I'll go with terrible. They developed a couple of players in Quintana and Sale, but it was enough to outfit a team that was 4th place when they did everything they could to compete. People bashing their scouting and development don't need to make absolute statements about how they developed "absolutely no one", they just need to note that they finished in 4th place repeatedly when they did their very best. The record of the big league squad says everything I need.