August 23, 20187 yr Author 5 minutes ago, Jake said: I'd lead with an offer of $40M for 7 years with 2-3 team or possibly vesting options. I'd be jumping for joy if he agreed to that which tells me it won't happen. Eloy is different from TA/Eaton and so on, I'd imagine that even with 0 MLB ABs, he'd need a lot more money than that. If he's anything like what we expect him to be, he would get more than $40 mil alone in his arb years.
August 23, 20187 yr 10 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: I'd be jumping for joy if he agreed to that which tells me it won't happen. Eloy is different from TA/Eaton and so on, I'd imagine that even with 0 MLB ABs, he'd need a lot more money than that. If he's anything like what we expect him to be, he would get more than $40 mil alone in his arb years. Based on historical deals, even 7/40 would be record breaking.
August 23, 20187 yr 1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said: I'd be jumping for joy if he agreed to that which tells me it won't happen. Eloy is different from TA/Eaton and so on, I'd imagine that even with 0 MLB ABs, he'd need a lot more money than that. If he's anything like what we expect him to be, he would get more than $40 mil alone in his arb years. Eaton and TA both had speed and much of Eaton's great season with us was on defense. Speed defense and hitting got the Sox a lot of value back for Eaton but Eaton knew he had a bad injury history and that's played out since he was traded. TA also has speed. not as much hit tool as Eaton slightly above average defense but less injuries. OBP not good. So again pretty good on both sides of the ball. I know how great it is to think we could have another Frank Thomas as a hitter but how likely is that ? Still have to weigh the hit and power tools against the defense and run tools plus some tendency to get injured. JD Martinez should have been given huge bucks but wasn't because all he can do is hit. I'll stop raining on everyone parade now.
August 23, 20187 yr 14 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: In what way? Not the content, that all seems genuine. But the topic, timing and platform all seem like his agency wanted him to do this or maybe someone in MLBPA as has been suggested. And I dont have a problem with that either. If this was fair hed be up already.
August 23, 20187 yr 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Based on historical deals, even 7/40 would be record breaking. And whatever the number is right now, you'd have to double it after a good month in MLB.
August 23, 20187 yr 1 minute ago, Jake said: And whatever the number is right now, you'd have to double it after a good month in MLB. You mean like Gordan Beckham ? ANd hundreds of others who ended up flashes in the proverbial pans. Edited August 23, 20187 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
August 23, 20187 yr 1 minute ago, Jake said: And whatever the number is right now, you'd have to double it after a good month in MLB. The numbers go up very quickly after players start getting service time. For example, Lindor with a year plus of service got a $100 million offer, and turned it down.
August 23, 20187 yr 4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Eaton and TA both had speed and much of Eaton's great season with us was on defense. Speed defense and hitting got the Sox a lot of value back for Eaton but Eaton knew he had a bad injury history and that's played out since he was traded. TA also has speed. not as much hit tool as Eaton slightly above average defense but less injuries. OBP not good. So again pretty good on both sides of the ball. I know how great it is to think we could have another Frank Thomas as a hitter but how likely is that ? Still have to weigh the hit and power tools against the defense and run tools plus some tendency to get injured. JD Martinez should have been given huge bucks but wasn't because all he can do is hit. I'll stop raining on everyone parade now. JD Martinez got $110 million.
August 23, 20187 yr 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The numbers go up very quickly after players start getting service time. For example, Lindor with a year plus of service got a $100 million offer, and turned it down. Again using an example of a great 2 way player with speed.
August 23, 20187 yr 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: JD Martinez got $110 million. But only really had 1 team offer him that. He was pursued without much vigor. He's the best comp for Eloy and he had a few years in the majors before he really figured it out.
August 23, 20187 yr 3 hours ago, Jose Abreu said: This is one of my favorite sports photos ever, for so many reasons. Yeah, that is great.
August 23, 20187 yr 1 hour ago, soxfan49 said: Sounds good, but then I think about Sale's and I could see something a little more per year how Sale got. Sale had MLB service though, so it's not truly a comparable.
August 23, 20187 yr Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Again using an example of a great 2 way player with speed. I am not sure why this "speed" distinction matters to be honest. PLENTY of guys without speed have signed these early extensions. Paul DeJong talked about early has 2 SBs in his whole career. Anthony Rizzo, Evan Longoria and Ryan Braun signed record breaking deals in their time periods. Paul Goldschmidt took 5/32 in his second year, with only one option year of control at $14.5 million.
August 23, 20187 yr Bring him up now as an act of trust. You would think it would go a long way when contract negotiation time comes up.
August 23, 20187 yr 9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: But only really had 1 team offer him that. He was pursued without much vigor. He's the best comp for Eloy and he had a few years in the majors before he really figured it out. Does it really matter how many teams offered it? The Rangers were the only one offered Arod 10/252, does that make it invalid?
August 23, 20187 yr 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Does it really matter how many teams offered it? The Yankees were the only one offered Arod 10/252, does that make it invalid? Actually the Rangers did.
August 23, 20187 yr 6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I am not sure why this "speed" distinction matters to be honest. PLENTY of guys without speed have signed these early extensions. Paul DeJong talked about early has 2 SBs in his whole career. Anthony Rizzo, Evan Longoria and Ryan Braun signed record breaking deals in their time periods. Paul Goldschmidt took 5/32 in his second year, with only one option year of control at $14.5 million. Just speed alone doesnt but speed and defense does and the injury history and the fact he is still in the minors. Just my opinion too early to offer him an extention based on his hitting alone. 8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Does it really matter how many teams offered it? The Yankees were the only one offered Arod 10/252, does that make it invalid? Different eras when teams weren't as conscious about the ramifications of offering guys long term deals based on what they had previously accomplished and paying for down side of careers. Many expected JD to get much bigger offers but not being a great 2 way player limited what he eventually got,
August 23, 20187 yr I think something can be worked around the draft or international status. If a player is drafted out of HS or signed internationally and makes his MLB Debut before age 21, the club holds that player's rights until the completion of their age 26 season(meaning that the player was 26 on opening day) Otherwise, it is 6 seasons after MLB debut, with the lone exception of 9/1 callups. 9/1 callups count toward Arbitration, but don't count in terms of team control. In this type of setup, there is zero reason for a player ready not to break camp with the team, and at the very least a player ready for the bigs will probably be called up on 9/1. In return, EVERY player who sticks gets Arbitration after 2 seasons of MLB service time. Edited August 23, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman
August 23, 20187 yr 5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Just speed alone doesnt but speed and defense does and the injury history and the fact he is still in the minors. Just my opinion too early to offer him an extention based on his hitting alone. Different eras when teams weren't as conscious about the ramifications of offering guys long term deals based on what they had previously accomplished and paying for down side of careers. Many expected JD to get much bigger offers but not being a great 2 way player limited what he eventually got, We don't even know that Jimenez is a limited defender yet. We have one guy who has pushed the whole 1B/DH, thing, but I have yet to see any real reporting that he won't be able to play a respectable corner OF.
August 23, 20187 yr 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: We don't even know that Jimenez is a limited defender yet. We have one guy who has pushed the whole 1B/DH, thing, but I have yet to see any real reporting that he won't be able to play a respectable corner OF. It isn't that Eloy is absolutely awful out there, it is more that the Sox have better defensive options internally and are absolutely loaded in the OF. He's not good, but he's not a Kyle Schwarber level butcher out there either.
August 23, 20187 yr 6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: We don't even know that Jimenez is a limited defender yet. We have one guy who has pushed the whole 1B/DH, thing, but I have yet to see any real reporting that he won't be able to play a respectable corner OF. I'm not saying he sucks out there but he doesn't have much speed and there are no glowing reports on his defense . They all say he is pretty much just OK out there . Then you add in the fact he will fill out and get slower plus the fact the Sox has some very good defensive talent in other outfield prospects who if they pan out become much more likely to play the OF than Eloy. I can see Eloy playing OF for 1 or 2 years but after that I have my doubts. Lilian started the whole 1st base thing i think and Parkman is the one who says he sucks out there ( sorry Parkman if it isn't you) .
August 23, 20187 yr 21 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: It isn't that Eloy is absolutely awful out there, it is more that the Sox have better defensive options internally and are absolutely loaded in the OF. He's not good, but he's not a Kyle Schwarber level butcher out there either. One poster informed me that Schwarber had a higher defensive fWAR than Trout (I'm not sure if that's still true). So stating the fact that Schwarber is a butcher must be inaccurate.
August 23, 20187 yr 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: One poster informed me that Schwarber had a higher defensive fWAR than Trout (I'm not sure if that's still true). So stating the fact that Schwarber is a butcher must be inaccurate. If you look at it though, it is solely because of his arm. He's negative everywhere else, and once teams stop running on him that will change.
August 23, 20187 yr 10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: If you look at it though, it is solely because of his arm. He's negative everywhere else, and once teams stop running on him that will change. Sorry if the sarcasm didn't come through. In no way do I think Schwarber is a better outfielder than Trout.
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