Eloy Jimenez: I'm Ready (Players' Tribune)

[Wanne]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

I agree with both of these statements. The CBA in 2021 is a huge wild card that nobody is talking about. Bring up Eloy now, deal with it later. 

This.  What do people think the reality of the years of control are lowered this next CBA?  

[ptatc]

15 minutes ago, Wanne said:

This.  What do people think the reality of the years of control are lowered this next CBA?  

The players will need to give up an awful lot in the next negotiations to get the years of control lowered.

[southsider2k5]

20 minutes ago, Wanne said:

This.  What do people think the reality of the years of control are lowered this next CBA?  

I keep seeing this said, but what do the players have that the owners want, and the players are willing to give up that will come close to covering this valuation?

[chitownsportsfan]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I keep seeing this said, but what do the players have that the owners want, and the players are willing to give up that will come close to covering this valuation?

Hard cap.  The union fucked up last round, the luxury tax is a de facto hard cap but just go ahead and formalize it.   But yea, the union is in a tough spot.  Tragically it appears that a strike might be the only way they can regain some bargaining power.  With so much money flowing into the game I really don't think the owners are in for a long fight.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Hard cap.  The union fucked up last round, the luxury tax is a de facto hard cap but just go ahead and formalize it.   But yea, the union is in a tough spot.  Tragically it appears that a strike might be the only way they can regain some bargaining power.  With so much money flowing into the game I really don't think the owners are in for a long fight.

They have a pretty tough set of cap rules right now.  Most of the top teams have gone running for their lives to avoid the new  luxury tax.  Past that the owners have gotten drug testing and penalties which are way tougher, they got much tougher and tight draft and international signings rules.  Do you see the ownership group giving up their players a year earlier in places like Tampa, Pittsburgh, etc and the like for a cap on teams that isn't going to affect 90% of baseball anyway?  I don't.

[chitownsportsfan]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They have a pretty tough set of cap rules right now.  Most of the top teams have gone running for their lives to avoid the new  luxury tax.  Past that the owners have gotten drug testing and penalties which are way tougher, they got much tougher and tight draft and international signings rules.  Do you see the ownership group giving up their players a year earlier in places like Tampa, Pittsburgh, etc and the like for a cap on teams that isn't going to affect 90% of baseball anyway?  I don't.

Yea I agree.  What's the deal with the international players becoming draft eligible?  I have no idea if that would be a positive for the majority of international prospects or a disaster.  I suspect MLB would save a lot of money tho if they could just draft someone like Yoan or Robert and not have to pay them 20-40 million up front.  But what about the guys that are getting the 100-500k bonuses?  If they are now draft eligible they probably aren't going to get much, what does a random 12th round pick sign for?  Not much I'd guess.

From a White Sox fan's perspective I sure would like to see the end of the "competitive balance" BS.  

[Jack Parkman]

23 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Hard cap.  The union fucked up last round, the luxury tax is a de facto hard cap but just go ahead and formalize it.   But yea, the union is in a tough spot.  Tragically it appears that a strike might be the only way they can regain some bargaining power.  With so much money flowing into the game I really don't think the owners are in for a long fight.

 

15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They have a pretty tough set of cap rules right now.  Most of the top teams have gone running for their lives to avoid the new  luxury tax.  Past that the owners have gotten drug testing and penalties which are way tougher, they got much tougher and tight draft and international signings rules.  Do you see the ownership group giving up their players a year earlier in places like Tampa, Pittsburgh, etc and the like for a cap on teams that isn't going to affect 90% of baseball anyway?  I don't.

Actually, the hard cap is something the union should want at this point, as long as it comes with a hard floor. A de facto hard cap with no floor is a dream scenario for ownership. As long as they get a floor that is 60-70% of the hard cap, staying where the luxury tax is in 2021, it would actually be a win for the players because the mid-tier FA are getting squeezed currently on salaries. This would ensure that the mid-tier FA get paid for their time. There almost has to be a strike at this point, because the players got bent over on the last CBA and ownership has everything they want other than an international draft. That is the only leverage the players have. Be prepared for 1994 to repeat itself in 2021. It's going to suck. The players should be prepared to give up the international draft in exchange for a cap and floor system and increased salary for minor leaguers and pre-arb players. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[chitownsportsfan]

That seems reasonable @Jack Parkman.  It's going to be ugly.

[southsider2k5]

30 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yea I agree.  What's the deal with the international players becoming draft eligible?  I have no idea if that would be a positive for the majority of international prospects or a disaster.  I suspect MLB would save a lot of money tho if they could just draft someone like Yoan or Robert and not have to pay them 20-40 million up front.  But what about the guys that are getting the 100-500k bonuses?  If they are now draft eligible they probably aren't going to get much, what does a random 12th round pick sign for?  Not much I'd guess.

From a White Sox fan's perspective I sure would like to see the end of the "competitive balance" BS.  

Personally I would love to see MLB take a page from NBA and NHL and do away with the international signings scene all together and have everyone either be a full free agent (after meeting a set of qualifying standards like they do today) or subject to the draft.  No more special status for kids who aren't from the US which entitles them to negotiate with any team, instead of being like the American kids who get to talk to the team that drafted them.  Just one world wide draft, and just like the NBA and NHL, players put their names into the draft upon high school graduation or upon turning 18 by a specific date.  International free agents happen when a player meets the free agency standards of his international leagues standards.

[Jose Abreu]

Eloy Jimenez will prove he's the next Miguel Cabrera or JD Martinez

[southsider2k5]

31 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

 

Actually, the hard cap is something the union should want at this point, as long as it comes with a hard floor. A de facto hard cap with no floor is a dream scenario for ownership. As long as they get a floor that is 60-70% of the hard cap, staying where the luxury tax is in 2021, it would actually be a win for the players because the mid-tier FA are getting squeezed currently on salaries. This would ensure that the mid-tier FA get paid for their time. There almost has to be a strike at this point, because the players got bent over on the last CBA and ownership has everything they want other than an international draft. That is the only leverage the players have. Be prepared for 1994 to repeat itself in 2021. It's going to suck. The players should be prepared to give up the international draft in exchange for a cap and floor system and increased salary for minor leaguers and pre-arb players. 

Again, what incentives do the teams have to give up a hard floor?  What are the players giving up here to make it worth while to the bottom teams in the leagues increase their payrolls significantly in some cases?

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Eloy Jimenez will prove he's the next Miguel Cabrera or JD Martinez

It's pretty amazing, at 21, he has the 7th highest ISO in AAA and the 9th best K% rate?  You gotta be bleeping me!  That's how you hit 370 with power.

[Lillian]

Marvin Miller was the shrewd labor negotiator, who made Free Agency the gold mine, for players,  that it is today. He knew that the key was limiting the number of eligible players, in any given year. That kept the supply limited, and gave the players a significant advantage, when their turn came, for their big contract. The owners should have known that Miller was outsmarting them, but they didn't.

You would think that would continue to be a principle, which the players' union understands. If players want to flood the market with more, and more players, they will only hurt their bargaining position. It's as simple as "supply and demand". The one change, which I'd like to see is an age limit, for eligibility. If they would agree that a player had to be, for example 28 years old, that would allow for young guys like Eloy to get their chance to play, when they are ready.  

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Hard cap.  The union fucked up last round, the luxury tax is a de facto hard cap but just go ahead and formalize it.   But yea, the union is in a tough spot.  Tragically it appears that a strike might be the only way they can regain some bargaining power.  With so much money flowing into the game I really don't think the owners are in for a long fight.

I don't see the union agreeing to a hard cap, unless the owners agree to a floor as well. That will be a tough battle.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

 

Actually, the hard cap is something the union should want at this point, as long as it comes with a hard floor. A de facto hard cap with no floor is a dream scenario for ownership. As long as they get a floor that is 60-70% of the hard cap, staying where the luxury tax is in 2021, it would actually be a win for the players because the mid-tier FA are getting squeezed currently on salaries. This would ensure that the mid-tier FA get paid for their time. There almost has to be a strike at this point, because the players got bent over on the last CBA and ownership has everything they want other than an international draft. That is the only leverage the players have. Be prepared for 1994 to repeat itself in 2021. It's going to suck. The players should be prepared to give up the international draft in exchange for a cap and floor system and increased salary for minor leaguers and pre-arb players. 

The floor is what the owners won't agree to.

That will essentially end the "rebuild" for clubs because they will have to spend money on players they don't want.

[ptatc]

33 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Personally I would love to see MLB take a page from NBA and NHL and do away with the international signings scene all together and have everyone either be a full free agent (after meeting a set of qualifying standards like they do today) or subject to the draft.  No more special status for kids who aren't from the US which entitles them to negotiate with any team, instead of being like the American kids who get to talk to the team that drafted them.  Just one world wide draft, and just like the NBA and NHL, players put their names into the draft upon high school graduation or upon turning 18 by a specific date.  International free agents happen when a player meets the free agency standards of his international leagues standards.

This would be logical which is why it won't be agreed upon.

[ptatc]

33 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Again, what incentives do the teams have to give up a hard floor?  What are the players giving up here to make it worth while to the bottom teams in the leagues increase their payrolls significantly in some cases?

Yes. The players would need to give up a ton to get less service time or a hard floor.

[iWiN4PreP]

OK -- For a while I was FIRMLY on the train of thought of not bringing him up. Right now, I'm quite the opposite. Eloy has done way too much in the minors to not bring him up as soon as this week. This is quite frankly both exciting and nerve wrecking. I feel if the club doesn't bring him up -- it's flat out disrespectful to the fans and the player. 

Do the right thing. Bring up ELOY!

[Wanne]

59 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Personally I would love to see MLB take a page from NBA and NHL and do away with the international signings scene all together and have everyone either be a full free agent (after meeting a set of qualifying standards like they do today) or subject to the draft.  No more special status for kids who aren't from the US which entitles them to negotiate with any team, instead of being like the American kids who get to talk to the team that drafted them.  Just one world wide draft, and just like the NBA and NHL, players put their names into the draft upon high school graduation or upon turning 18 by a specific date.  International free agents happen when a player meets the free agency standards of his international leagues standards.

I like it.

[Leonard Zelig]

1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said:

OK -- For a while I was FIRMLY on the train of thought of not bringing him up. Right now, I'm quite the opposite. Eloy has done way too much in the minors to not bring him up as soon as this week. This is quite frankly both exciting and nerve wrecking. I feel if the club doesn't bring him up -- it's flat out disrespectful to the fans and the player. 

Do the right thing. Bring up ELOY!

I would rather watch 28 yr old Eloy in a Sox uniform than 21 yr old Eloy.

[iWiN4PreP]

2 minutes ago, Leonard Zelig said:

I would rather watch 28 yr old Eloy in a Sox uniform than 21 yr old Eloy.

Yeah -- me too, then bring him up, resign him when the time comes and we get to watch both. :).

[chitownsportsfan]

Rick Hahn -- "I'm Not Ready" -- the Players Tribune

[oldsox]

5 hours ago, ptatc said:

The players will need to give up an awful lot in the next negotiations to get the years of control lowered.

They seldom have to give up anything.

[oldsox]

PTI discussed Eloy's status tonight.  Always nice to see Sox get some attention.

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, oldsox said:

PTI discussed Eloy's status tonight.  Always nice to see Sox get some attention.

Did they discuss why the Cubs haven't called him up yet?