https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/11/mariners-trade-rumors-robinson-cano-yankees-jacoby-ellsbury-mets.html

The early returns on the dipoto sell off are not inspiring to me. I am completely confused why Diaz is not being shopped. Now, if it's because DiPoto thinks july is a better time to shop him I can see that. But it feels like dipoto thinks he can retool on the fly and I'm skeptical with that farm.

Good luck with that. 36, coming off a PED suspension, owed $120 million over the next 5 years. 

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Good luck with that. 36, coming off a PED suspension, owed $120 million over the next 5 years. 

I could see one of those "bad contract for bad contract" swaps, but problem for them is there aren't that many "kemp"-like contracts around. Like...Cabrera for cano or something awful.

Cano still a pretty good stick when he's out there.  But that contract.  

18 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Cano still a pretty good stick when he's out there.  But that contract.  

Hard when there were PEDs involved. His aging may not be so graceful.

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Hard when there were PEDs involved. His aging may not be so graceful.

He was pretty damn good upon return, surely clean of PEDs.  I highly doubt Cano was on PEDs his whole career and just randomly got caught in his mid 30s. 

23 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

He was pretty damn good upon return, surely clean of PEDs.  I highly doubt Cano was on PEDs his whole career and just randomly got caught in his mid 30s. 

No, but he may be using PEDs to stay healthy or stronger, and if his last 5 years are just being chronically injured that is also bad.

I'm a big proponent of finding a few year solution at 3B, something the Sox have really struggled with for almost 20 years now. Is that Moncada? Anderson? even maybe Madrigal? Jake Burger? Machado? Arenado? Who knows.. but I would definitely explore a Cano trade.

If you look at Cano's stats both offensively and defensively he has been really consistent.. even when returning from the suspension (https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/canoro01.shtml) . With 5 years left on his contract and $120mm -- that's an awful pill to swallow, but the Mariners are desperate and ridding his contract would enable them to have flexibility moving forward. Lets say:

Year 1&2: .285 BA, 20HR, 85RBI, plays exclusively 3B

Years 3&4 . 260BA, 15HR, 60RBI, plays 3B, 1B, DH, 2B in a rotation for 130 games

Year 5: .240BA, 5HR, 40RBI, plays basically backup DH and bench spot for occasional starts -- plays 60 games

 

Would you take that on at $24mm a year, knowing that the Sox are cheap and that would impact future spending during a hopeful WS run in years 3-5?

 

The kicker -- by taking on the whole contract you get Mitch Haniger included for free. Or Edwin Diaz.

 

Haniger isn't even arb eligible until 2020, not a FA until 2023. You stick him RF (obviously no Harper) and Cano at 3B.

You buy out Haniger's arb years for an initial higher salary, but lower AAV later in his contract to balance out Cano's cost. For $30mm you get Cano and Haniger instead of just Harper or Machado?

Lineup: 1b Abreu, 2b moncada, ss Anderson, 3b cano, lf eloy jimenez, cf ? rf haniger

 

I actually don't mind the idea if you could guarantee that Cano puts up that production.

Why does everyone just assume teams would give away their best young players to get rid of their worst contracts? If the Sox had Cano and Haniger, would you deal Haniger and Cano to receive nothing? If the Sox did that, we would all be pissed that they just gave up their worst asset.

This is a  front office that has twice sent top young talent in return for a bloated contract of a veteran having a bad year.   Now these ace negotiators  will turn that scenario around?

Not assuming they would - but in my defense, that Cano contract is close to untouchable. They're going to have to eat half of it ($60mm) to get any type of interest and maybe some fringe prospect tied to it. Aka, they may be able to get a Carson Fulmer or a Mederios or somebody. To have a team step in and take $120mm/$24mm per year off the books in a market like Seattle would be huge. As such, I'd think someone like Haniger "could" be on the table.

In the NBA you see this all the time, I think you'll start seeing it more in the MLB. Tying good assets to take the bad assets away.

Just as reference, with taking away Cano, after 2019 they'd have $51mm off the books between Cano and King Felix. I just think it really helps them with a quick/nimble turnaround - something it seems their GM would like based on his aggressive trade nature thus far.

50 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

This is a  front office that has twice sent top young talent in return for a bloated contract of a veteran having a bad year.   Now these ace negotiators  will turn that scenario around?

?  What trades are you referring to?

46 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Not assuming they would - but in my defense, that Cano contract is close to untouchable. They're going to have to eat half of it ($60mm) to get any type of interest and maybe some fringe prospect tied to it. Aka, they may be able to get a Carson Fulmer or a Mederios or somebody. To have a team step in and take $120mm/$24mm per year off the books in a market like Seattle would be huge. As such, I'd think someone like Haniger "could" be on the table.

In the NBA you see this all the time, I think you'll start seeing it more in the MLB. Tying good assets to take the bad assets away.

Just as reference, with taking away Cano, after 2019 they'd have $51mm off the books between Cano and King Felix. I just think it really helps them with a quick/nimble turnaround - something it seems their GM would like based on his aggressive trade nature thus far.

Why does Seattle care that much about removing Cano’s contract at this juncture?

Robinson Cano for Eric Hosmer. Saves you $3 million a year the first 4 years, then 12 million in year 5.

San Diego rids itself of 5-8 years on contract and maybe get lucky with a retirement.

(no I don't think this happens)

edit: crap I forgot NL will be too hard without DH)

21 minutes ago, bmags said:

Robinson Cano for Eric Hosmer. Saves you $3 million a year the first 4 years, then 12 million in year 5.

San Diego rids itself of 5-8 years on contract and maybe get lucky with a retirement.

(no I don't think this happens)

edit: crap I forgot NL will be too hard without DH)

I love bmags' post here. It shows again how insane it is to sign "anybody" in free agency. So we are already talking about SD "ridding itself" of Hosmer. Eight years 144 million.  Why the hell did they sign him to begin with? 

Edited November 26, 20187 yr by greg775

1 hour ago, BrianAnderson said:

Not assuming they would - but in my defense, that Cano contract is close to untouchable. They're going to have to eat half of it ($60mm) to get any type of interest and maybe some fringe prospect tied to it.

Same song, second verse. Why sign anybody when you wind up desperately trying to rid yourself of the contract?

Haniger is probably the most valuable trade asset in their entire organization.  There is no way they would EVER give him away to save money. 

11 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I love bmags' post here. It shows again how insane it is to sign "anybody" in free agency. So we are already talking about SD "ridding itself" of Hosmer. Eight years 144 million.  Why the hell did they sign him to begin with? 

Nobody knows why they did that. It’s the most universally panned/disliked player transaction since the Shelby Miller trade. 

Thus, it probably shouldn’t be used as a representative example of free agent market behavior. 

Edited November 26, 20187 yr by Eminor3rd

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Same song, second verse. Why sign anybody when you wind up desperately trying to rid yourself of the contract?

it wouldn't be a bad contract if he was 32, it just so happens he's coming off of 36 year old season with PED's. his numbers have had almost no decline which is super super impressive. Do I think they do it with Haniger included? Probably not, but if you throw in someone with some upside they may. Call it Yolmer or Avi, etc.

Seattle's GM has been very aggressive thus far and I think he's the type of guy that wouldn't mind having $50mm+ of payroll open up next year so he can make a mark of his own and erase the contracts signed by the preivous GM.

Here's a question... would you do something like Basabe for Cano (full contract) and Haniger. Or something like Rutherford for Cano and ($22mm per year) Haniger

To answer your question of why sign anybody ... it's a calculated decision, it just so happens the Seattles and Chicago's of the world have to pay more (years) to get their guy all else equal since we don't have a history of winning. Then once one of those contracts doesn't go well then it sinks the ship for a while. I still standby that you can get Diaz or Haniger off the Mariners.

Per Rotoworld: -- notice the last sentence -- Mets looking into Cano as a means to get Edwin Diaz. I again standby my statement that you can get Haniger if you take on  the Cano Contract. It's math for the Mariners -- to free up that money is worth  A LOT to that team. Imagine if we had that contract on our books and were in the same situation as the Mariners -- stuck in no mans land and with limited payroll flexibility.. I think we'd attach a Reynaldo Lopez or a Moncada to a trade as well (we don't really have comparable assets)

Andy Martino of SNY.tv reports that the Mets are being "aggressive" in trade talks regarding the Mariners' Robinson Cano.

The idea is that the Mets could perhaps take advantage of the Mariners' pursuit to move Cano and get the club to improve their offer in order to make it happen. Seattle's options could be limited, as Cano has a full no-trade clause. But the thought is that he could be willing to make a return to New York, either with the Mets or the Yankees. Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported on Monday that there was talk of a Cano-for-Ellsbury swap of bad contracts, but they didn't lead anywhere. It's possible it could be revisited down the road. As for the Mets, Martino speculates that the club could be able to swap a bad contract like Jay Bruce while trying to get the Mariners to include Edwin Diaz in the deal. Cano, 36, is still owed $120 million over the next five seasons. It's a complicated scenario, especially after a year where he served a PED suspension, but the Mets are considering all avenues to improve.

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 20187 yr by BrianAnderson

Mitch Haniger has 2 years of service time under his belt already, so he's 1 year from arbitration eligibility and 4 years from free agency. If he makes $40 million in his 3 arbitration years, that means by taking on Cano to get him, you have spent $160 million/4 to get Haniger, because clearly the White Sox don't have many uses for Cano. 

My question is would you take Cano and that contract, even if you didn't have to trade anyone to get him?

I would be all in favor of getting Cano, or a guy like Cano, if it meant we could acquire some top six year controlled talent in the process.

1 minute ago, Lillian said:

My question is would you take Cano and that contract, even if you didn't have to trade anyone to get him?

No. No one would.