5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

No, it suggests they’re doing their diligence in case things don’t work out.

Why did they wait so long? Couldn’t they have done this before Christmas?

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

Tearing down and rebuilding are 2 distinct tasks.  Ed Wade conducted much of the Astros tear-down; Luhnow rebuilt them.
Hahn's tear down was satisfactory. 
But I saw how he rebuilt from 2014-2016; his moves in this rebuild, minor so far as they may be, are of similar philosophy.  Still behind in analytics.   We'll see.

Which transactions did Ed Wade make that were of the significance of Hahn’s trades of Sale/Eaton/Quintana?

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

Tearing down and rebuilding are 2 distinct tasks.  Ed Wade conducted much of the Astros tear-down; Luhnow rebuilt them.
Hahn's tear down was satisfactory. 
But I saw how he rebuilt from 2014-2016; his moves in this rebuild, minor so far as they may be, are of similar philosophy.  Still behind in analytics.   We'll see.

The “best” trade turned out the worst so far (Eaton) and the player everyone worried we waited too long to deal gave us our two best prospects in Jimenez and Cease...where just one was expected, at best.

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Why did they wait so long? Couldn’t they have done this before Christmas?

What if they did and we're just hearing about it now?

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Why did they wait so long? Couldn’t they have done this before Christmas?

Who’s to say they didn’t?

It’s one thing to live and die with every rumor, it’s another to adhere to the time of the rumor’s appearance as if it’s not something that could’ve existed before...

6 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Tearing down and rebuilding are 2 distinct tasks.  Ed Wade conducted much of the Astros tear-down; Luhnow rebuilt them.
Hahn's tear down was satisfactory. 
But I saw how he rebuilt from 2014-2016; his moves in this rebuild, minor so far as they may be, are of similar philosophy.  Still behind in analytics.   We'll see.

The fact you call 2014 to 2016 a “rebuild” shows you are unable to be objective in this conversation.

2 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Oh I remember. I was actually at the Sox Cubs game that day Olivo hit a bomb off I believe Maddux and he was having a good game overall only to be taken out half way through the game (dealt mid-game for Freddy Garcia). I was 13 at the time. 

Just don't see how that is relevant to signing an amateur free agent.

You’re talking about using connections.

It doesn’t matter whether it’s Guillen geting Garcia to sign an extension, Abreu/Moncada/Renteria influencing Robert, Contreras and El Duque with Viciedo or this Shakespearean play we’re putting on to entice Machado (more like The Death Of Stalin at the current moment), it’s all using your network or connections to advance the organization’s ability to win games.

7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Why did they wait so long? Couldn’t they have done this before Christmas?

How do you know they didn’t?  Does Morosi get real time info from every single GM?

13 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Tearing down and rebuilding are 2 distinct tasks.  Ed Wade conducted much of the Astros tear-down; Luhnow rebuilt them.
Hahn's tear down was satisfactory. 
But I saw how he rebuilt from 2014-2016; his moves in this rebuild, minor so far as they may be, are of similar philosophy.  Still behind in analytics.   We'll see.

They both should have been replaced when it was determined despite having several players on team friendly contracts, they had not assembled enough talent in their organization or left enough available cash to go outside to acquire some, but they bought themselves time. But some progress needs to be seen. Part of their plan was Machado and/or Harper. If that fails, and next season the prospects aren’t making significant progress, it may be time to make a change. At some point being successful has to matter. 2019, probably not, although many thought 2019 was going to be the year the Sox started really turning it around. Reality set in, and prospects often struggle. But they need to show advancement. As it stands, there are some decent free agents that currently would be available after next season. Would anyone feel confident RH and KW are the team that would reel one or two of them in?

Edited December 29, 20187 yr by Dick Allen

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

How do you know they didn’t?  Does Morosi get real time info from every single GM?

How does anyone know it means Machado has moved on, as opposed to it being leverage in negotiations with the Sox?

I personally don't think Pollock or Moustakas are the long term answers either, but I'd much rather have them than Engel and Yolmer if push came to shove.

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

How do you know they didn’t?  Does Morosi get real time info from every single GM?

They were supposedly involved with Cruz, but doesn’t sound like we were one of the 3 finalists.  

Holy fuck this board needs an official announcement badly.

No rumor can cure this. Only an official announcement on what team he is going to play for.

Edited December 29, 20187 yr by soxfan2014

1 minute ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I know it’s not a popular opinion, but I don’t either ever really seriously considered the Sox. Don’t get me wrong, that’s ultimately Hahn/KW’s fault because they built this team into the undesirable destination that it is at the moment. But I don’t think the necessary funds available was ever enough for Harper or Manny. 

 

Everyone else is looking at the Alonso deal like it’s some genius move to get Manny. To me it’s a bad front office continuing to be bad thinking they can supplement with mediocre talent like Alonso/Nova/McCann...and I expect another bad move or 2 and the front office trying to sell the roster as a playoff team. We’ll see....

Isn’t that sad though, the thought that we never had a chance even with the available money? It won’t matter for Arenado, or any other top tier FA, either. We’re a tough sell unless this team is FAR outspending its competitors. If that’s the reality, we are in a lot of trouble unless this minor league system starts producing immediately. Eloy can’t wait 3-4 years, ontop of Moncada’s 3-4 years and Giolitto’s 3-4 years for everything to come together. This is the position we are faced with. 

The Alonso move, no matter the rationale, will always be associated with Machado. I’m more willing to accept Alonso as some bargaining chip than the possibility we traded for him as someone we envision being part of a championship team. 

 

5 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

I personally don't think Pollock or Moustakas are the long term answers either, but I'd much rather have them than Engel and Yolmer if push came to shove.

Pollack to Engel for the 80 games that AJ plays per season, fine that's an upgrade, not a a very sensible one but hey maybe we can somehow keep him healthy. Pick your set of stats though - fangraphs thinks Moustakas was narrowly more valuable last year, Baseball Reference thinks Yolmer was a substantial upgrade from Moustakas. If you're giving out a 4 year contract it would be nice to at least have both websites agree "This is not a downgrade". 

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

How do you know they didn’t?  Does Morosi get real time info from every single GM?

Because acquiring him or being in on him almost certainly means Alonso would be moving along. They even had a conference call with Alonso.

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

As it stands, there are some decent free agents that currently would be available after next season. Would anyone feel confident RH and KW are the team that would reel one or two of them in?

My opinion on the FAs is for the most part distinct from KW and RH.
From a macro perspective, these are 2nd/3rd tier free agents who are hole-pluggers.  We don't know what the holes will be in 2 years when the Sox should be ready to win.  Machado/Harper are different - they are cornerstones and holes are plugged around them.

  I'm not interested in Pollack because he's a)declined and b)the Sox have CF candidates that should be ready in a year or 2.  No interesting Moustakas because I don't think he's anything more than average and he's an OBP killer; Grandal is probably the best of the bunch but he's tied to a draft pick, the Sox have 2 catchers, and much of his skill is based on "framing" a stat that I think has at least some correlation with the quality of the pitchers to begin with.

3 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

I personally don't think Pollock or Moustakas are the long term answers either, but I'd much rather have them than Engel and Yolmer if push came to shove.

Aren’t you just settling for mediocrity again? 

We shouldn’t be making roster choices with the thought of, well it’s not ideal; but it’s better than our current garbage. 

I’ll take the garbage, please. Either we are going to get this rebuild going right or they will just continue failing until Hahn is fired. 

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

My opinion on the FAs is for the most part distinct from KW and RH.
From a macro perspective, these are 2nd/3rd tier free agents who are hole-pluggers.  We don't know what the holes will be in 2 years when the Sox should be ready to win.  Machado/Harper are different - they are cornerstones and holes are plugged around them.

  I'm not interested in Pollack because he's a)declined and b)the Sox have CF candidates that should be ready in a year or 2.  No interesting Moustakas because I don't think he's anything more than average and he's an OBP killer; Grandal is probably the best of the bunch but he's tied to a draft pick, the Sox have 2 catchers, and much of his skill is based on "framing" a stat that I think has at least some correlation with the quality of the pitchers to begin with.

I give you a trophy for your comment about framing.

There any other good 1 or 2 year stop gaps we can sign to flip in July or next off-season?

1 minute ago, Flash Tizzle said:

Aren’t you just settling for mediocrity again? 

We shouldn’t be making roster choices with the thought of, well it’s not ideal; but it’s better than our current garbage. 

I’ll take the garbage, please. Either we are going to get this rebuild going right or they will just continue failing until Hahn is fired. 

$60-80 million for Pollock and $22 million to Moustakas for two years will be then cited as major reasons we couldn’t afford any premier free agents next offseason.

21 minutes ago, iamshack said:

How do you know it doesn’t mean Lozano is trying to push up their number/years?

Let’s say hypothetically the Yankees are unwilling to make a competitive offer, and Machado doesn’t have a particular interest in playing for Philadelphia. 

What is Dan Lozano going to do?

Why wouldn’t the White Sox be offering max dollars and years?

If that wasthe reason for this leak, it would laughable. More laughable than the leak of interest in taking Dayan Viciedo off their hands.

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Why wouldn’t the White Sox be offering max dollars and years?

If that wasthe reason for this leak, it would laughable. More laughable than the leak of interest in taking Dayan Viciedo off their hands.

Lozano is supposedly a massive sleazeball 

25 minutes ago, iamshack said:

Which transactions did Ed Wade make that were of the significance of Hahn’s trades of Sale/Eaton/Quintana?

Only Hunter Pence was of that age and level and Wade traded him.  Also Michael Bourn.
They got more mileage out of their trades of 2nd and 3rd tier players, largely conducted by Luhnow.  Can't argue with Hahn's returns on the big 3, but the returns on the 2nd tier players have been light - at least a nugget hasn't emerged.  The Astros had several (as did the Cubs) from their 2nd/3rd tier trades.

Edited December 29, 20187 yr by GreenSox