2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

But if they change it, there is a guaranteed 4 more years of a rebuild. Unless the team has success in the next 2 years, in that case the current FO was successful. 

Why, the same players would still be here. 

Hahn has already showed he can't make a 74 win team, even an 80 win team. At some point, the Sox may be a 74 win team. JR said when he fired Himes, he can get you from A to B but not to C. Hahn was a B, never got to C, now is at A. I would thing A to C is harder than B to C, and he couldn't get anywhere near C when he was at B.

4 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Rebuilds don’t happen in a year or two. FWIW most posters were excited about the big 3 trades when it happened, and some were also able giving stamps of approval on the Rutherford trade. The draft philosophy has changed in the last few years where plate discipline is being emphasized. We made the sexy move by going for the biggest name in J2 signing. Most fans were happy about these moves when they happened, so calling for firing of them after 2 years (especially Hahn) is asinine, epecially since the minors were mauled by injuries this year. Give Hahn another 2 years with these prospects before bringing out the lynch mob.

Also, the system is ranked 3 or so by people who know much more than me. This means that they think that the plan is working. Is it a guarantee, no. However, they seem to be in the right path and it should be given a chance to work or fail.

47 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It's time the White Sox attempt to make themselves one of those teams, instead of  just trying. 

Making excuses shows you have accepted mediocrity at best. 

If you want to be the best, you have to act like the best. Corbin wanted to play for the Yankees as well. But the Nats offered him $40 million more. He's a Nat. It's OK for the Yankees because they have others that will sign with them, despite guys like Stanton getting booed out of the building. 

Corbin is also 29 so maybe he went in feeling this could be his last shot at big money so the 6 years as well as the $40 sold him.  We will soon find out what will sway the big 2.

My concern is a star hitter may want protection in the lineup so he has a better chance of producing.  Will getting the biggest contract be a deciding factor for Machado or Harper since some superstars have such a big ego? If money is the deciding factor, what cities/teams offer the best endorsement deals?  Does either prefer playing for a winner versus going to a rebuild?  I would think the agent wants every buck they can get for their pockets so they may try and sell the contract over the location.  I think way back, Machado said he preferred East Coast.  Was that true? Does the ballpark .roster,  coaching staff etc. have any affect.   Do their wives care and if so do the players care what their wives think?   Has JR asked Michael Jordan to speak to both to show  that a superstar can thrive in Chicago?  Have either talked to Chris Sale about uniforms?  

5 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Also, the system is ranked 3 or so by people who know much more than me. This means that they think that the plan is working. Is it a guarantee, no. However, they seem to be in the right path and it should be given a chance to work or fail.

To me it’s less about the farm system and more about the struggles of the young guys at the big league level that were supposed to be part of the rebuild.  One of the biggest issues when they decided to rebuild was if this organization could develop offensive players. I don’t blame Manny and Harper for not wanting to play here in all honesty.

Didnt J.P Morosi say the other day that no one has made an offer to machado and that the tour was about him feeling out the teams and whsts going on?

8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Also, the system is ranked 3 or so by people who know much more than me. This means that they think that the plan is working. Is it a guarantee, no. However, they seem to be in the right path and it should be given a chance to work or fail.

Within the Central, the Sox are poised to be looking up at the Indians for the forseeable future. For all the hoopla surrounding our prospects, the Indians can boast of a steller crop of prospects themselves and are actually considering moving Kluber or Bauer to add to their largesse. Forward progress on rebuild was stunted by disappointing returns on our trade capital, namely Moncada and Giolito. If either/both performed to expectations, the world might look a bit differently. 

32 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Career high in HR, RBI, AVG, OBP, SLG and 146 OPS+ last year even after a bit of drop in production following the mid season trade. His previous OPS+ high of 132 was back in 2015. Not sure how last year wouldn’t be considered a career year.

Well you don’t worry about paying someone after a career year unless said year was a clear outlier which it wasn’t.  And like I said, the difference between his 2018 and 2015/2016 seasons can be explaining by a natural aging curve.

51 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I think it's ridiculous these dopes were given the chance to do the rebuild. They already have shown their incompetence. We will wait for next year's free agents, and get shutout and say well he really wanted to be a Yankee or a Cub or a Red Sox or a Dodger, nothing could have been done.  Oh well, maybe Yolmer will dump some water on his head again.  Why doesn't anyone have their heart set to be a White Sox? We know why, it's because they suck. 

Gonna take a little time, Dick. You can oppose the decision to keep the FO in place all you want, but placing unreasonable expectations on them only makes you look like a fool. 

8 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

Didnt J.P Morosi say the other day that no one has made an offer to machado and that the tour was about him feeling out the teams and whsts going on?

Yet no one believed it was accurate 

28 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Why, the same players would still be here. 

Hahn has already showed he can't make a 74 win team, even an 80 win team. At some point, the Sox may be a 74 win team. JR said when he fired Himes, he can get you from A to B but not to C. Hahn was a B, never got to C, now is at A. I would thing A to C is harder than B to C, and he couldn't get anywhere near C when he was at B.

Hahn made 2 massive mistakes.  After his first season (2013) in which they won 63 or so games, they were at an A-;  he made some moves and they won 73, in 2014  which put them at a solid A level.  At that point, they needed a controllable hitter he could pair with Eaton and Abreu and a couple of 3-5 starters and some pen help.  They didn't need it all in one season but those were 2 year goals...instead managed the situation like they were at a B+ level and rents Samardzija for one year, signs Melky, Robertson, etc.  They improved 3 games in 2015. 

Then in 2016, he panicked, rushing up Fulmer and Anderson, making the horrendous Shields trade, and using a 1st round draft choice on Burdi, who was drafted specifically to rush up into the 2016 pen.
 

Edited December 31, 20187 yr by GreenSox

6 minutes ago, iamshack said:

Gonna take a little time, Dick. You can oppose the decision to keep the FO in place all you want, but placing unreasonable expectations on them only makes you look like a fool. 

There are no unreasonable expectations. Read KW's quotes. What they need is available now. If they don't land them, they have failed yet again. 

Why would replacing them now be tearing down what they have done? The same players would be there. Let someone who could actually execute their plan take over.

26 minutes ago, beckham15 said:

Love the optimism man but what about all of the other reports? You continue to take shots at Dan Clark but there has been others as well that have said he’s all but a done deal to NYY?

Simonetti Source & Leyritz are the only two people I’m aware of that have said something similar.  I know next to nothing about the first guy, but it sure reeks of someone pitching his wagon to Dan Clark because why the fuck not.  And I know Jim Leyritz broke the Stanton trade a year ago, but he’s also not a guy that does this for a living and has had some big misses.  I question how much real time access he has to the front office and he was also was responding to some random person’s question and not intending to report anything.  Am I missing anyone else?

28 minutes ago, fathom said:

To me it’s less about the farm system and more about the struggles of the young guys at the big league level that were supposed to be part of the rebuild.  One of the biggest issues when they decided to rebuild was if this organization could develop offensive players. I don’t blame Manny and Harper for not wanting to play here in all honesty.

And lack of impact draftees despite best position Sox have been in consistently for basically 5 straight years

1 minute ago, bmags said:

And lack of impact draftees despite best position Sox have been in consistently for basically 5 straight years

Positionless baseball, not positionless basketball!

47 minutes ago, ptatc said:

But if they change it, there is a guaranteed 4 more years of a rebuild. Unless the team has success in the next 2 years, in that case the current FO was successful. 

If you replaced KW/Hahn with the Brewers FO you think the rebuild would last longer? No way, they’d get more out of everything, especially FA.

I think the masses would be growing impatient with the rebuild but still pretty much on board this offseason had the front office said "we can't start spending money until more of the young players in our system start to make a positive impact at the major league level, we are not a player or two away yet". 

We'd be bummed about virtually no one taking a step forward last season but Eloy-Mania would have begun and the fanbase's mood would be relatively stable.  

Instead, Hahn has told us they are in on Harpchado and how they've been pointing towards this offseason since the start of the rebuild. They repeatedly stated that they wouldn't sign stop-gap types.   

And they've turned around and added the definition of two stop-gaps and we are starting to feel that we have little to no chance of landing a Harpchado.  Hahn went from sitting on a virtual golden throne to fanatics wanting him out-the-door since the winter meetings.  This is  just bizarre.  

4 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

I think the masses would be growing impatient with the rebuild but still pretty much on board this offseason had the front office said "we can't start spending money until more of the young players in our system start to make a positive impact at the major league level, we are not a player or two away yet". 

We'd be bummed about virtually no one taking a step forward last season but Eloy-Mania would have begun and the fanbase's mood would be relatively stable.  

Instead, Hahn has told us they are in on Harpchado and how they've been pointing towards this offseason since the start of the rebuild. They repeatedly stated that they wouldn't sign stop-gap types.   

And they've turned around and added the definition of two stop-gaps and we are starting to feel that we have little to no chance of landing a Harpchado.  Hahn went from sitting on a virtual golden throne to fanatics wanting him out-the-door since the winter meetings.  This is  just bizarre.  

It's not just that, it's the fact that they said they NEEDED these pieces. And, they spent $9 million as bait. If it doesn't work, it is a fail.

I just hope we never hear their plan was to hopefully get Machado at a discount by paying $9 million to Alonso.

Edited December 31, 20187 yr by Dick Allen

Alright, for some reason I feel like there could be a ton of pent up moves that get announced shortly after the holiday.  Here’s my dream week for the White Sox:

• Wednesday: Kikuchi - 4/$38M (plus ~20% posting fee)
• Thursday: Ottavino - 2/$21M (w/ vesting 3rd year option)
• Friday: Machado - 10/$350M (opt-outs after years 4 & 6)

Flame away!

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Alright, for some reason I feel like there could be a ton of pent up moves that get announced shortly after the holiday.  Here’s my dream week for the White Sox:

• Wednesday: Kikuchi - 4/$38M (plus ~20% posting fee)
• Thursday: Ottavino - 2/$21M (w/ vesting 3rd year option)
• Friday: Machado - 10/$350M (opt-outs after years 4 & 6)

Flame away!

Sat: Harper - 10/380M  

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Alright, for some reason I feel like there could be a ton of pent up moves that get announced shortly after the holiday.  Here’s my dream week for the White Sox:

• Wednesday: Kikuchi - 4/$38M (plus ~20% posting fee)
• Thursday: Ottavino - 2/$21M (w/ vesting 3rd year option)
• Friday: Machado - 10/$350M (opt-outs after years 4 & 6)

Flame away!

Wed - James Shields

Thurs- Avi Garcia

Fri- Curtis Granderson

Just now, yesterday333 said:

Sat: Harper - 10/380M  

Lol...I’d be all for it, but didn’t want to get too greedy.  But add those four guys and this team has an outside shot at the division in 2019.

my favorite part of the rebuild the last two years was that we could all see the plan and the fanbase had an air of positivity.

the ' I'm done with Hahn' vibe if he doesn't get Harper or Machado despite trying is nauseating sox fan negativity. we'll never truly know if we're outbid, players simply wanted to play elsewhere, etc.

to date, nothing suggests the plan is off path within hahn's control. Alonso is a 9 mil gamble but it's not a dead weight player either. playing matchups between abreu, Alonso, palka at 1b/dh is an improvement in defense and likely offense.

you do your best to reel the big fish in and if you cant, take on some bad contracts, add more prospects and go hard at arenado, etc in a year. 'but I've waited too long as a sox fan!'

um, its year three of a rebuild that involved almost a full sell off. it stinks moncada and giolito in particular cause hesitation as to if this will work, but there's really no choice but to be a fan or not, with a healthy reminder there are 29 other teams and free agency simply will never work out for all.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Alright, for some reason I feel like there could be a ton of pent up moves that get announced shortly after the holiday.  Here’s my dream week for the White Sox:

• Wednesday: Kikuchi - 4/$38M (plus ~20% posting fee)
• Thursday: Ottavino - 2/$21M (w/ vesting 3rd year option)
• Friday: Machado - 10/$350M (opt-outs after years 4 & 6)

Flame away!

I'd be ok with this haha

Just now, fathom said:

Wed - James Shields

Thurs- Avi Garcia

Fri- Curtis Granderson

Sat - Me canceling my cable because I refuse to watch a team that plans on giving Big Game James 30 starts next year.

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sat - Me canceling my cable because I refuse to watch a team that plans on giving Big Game James 30 starts next year.

If we are continuing the tank, why not?