Baseball isn't basketball though. If sox could produce same level of talent internally that cleveland or tampa does, we do have better payroll flexibility to retain our guys without constant churn there. They would be super competitive year in year out.

But they think they are the cubs and red sox, well, except their ability to produce internal talent. 

Cant stress enough that the white sox payroll this year is $15 million over the oakland as and even more over the Rays. Both those teams may win 85 games plus again, we have the least position player talent in the league until eloy gets here (excluding baltimore). That $15 mill got us nothing. When you spend as poorly as hahn, having a $130 million payroll isn't much of an advantage over the rays when you can't identify, develop and draft 90% as well as they do.

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Cant stress enough that the white sox payroll this year is $15 million over the oakland as and even more over the Rays. Both those teams may win 85 games plus again, we have the least position player talent in the league until eloy gets here (excluding baltimore). That $15 mill got us nothing. When you spend as poorly as hahn, having a $130 million payroll isn't much of an advantage over the rays when you can't identify, develop and draft 90% as well as they do.

This offseason has been a total failure. If they miss on Bryce, there needs to be calls for Hahn to be fired.

3 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

I mean, it took what, a week? for the Machado deal to look pretty darn good. Once these MLB redoes their players association deal you better believe they'll get a bigger piece of the pie earlier in their careers. Owners are making more than ever and players aren't going to stand by. We'll look back at Machado for $30mm and laugh at ourselves even harder while we have Mark Teahen or Brent Morel manning the 2025 hot corner.

The Sox FO is just terrible & isn't going to change.

What? Arenado went for 8 years 255.

That is a much better deal. He's a year older then Machado but has been much better.

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Cant stress enough that the white sox payroll this year is $15 million over the oakland as and even more over the Rays. Both those teams may win 85 games plus again, we have the least position player talent in the league until eloy gets here (excluding baltimore). That $15 mill got us nothing. When you spend as poorly as hahn, having a $130 million payroll isn't much of an advantage over the rays when you can't identify, develop and draft 90% as well as they do.

Hey, but at least they’re spending, or willing to spend...although it might take another fifty years to find the exact perfect combo of Tier C and D additions to actually win something.

We’re basically the Twins, except more wasted money and lower in the standings.

Just now, wrathofhahn said:

What? Arenado went for 8 years 255.

That is a much better deal. He's a year older then Machado but has been much better.

Hard to say that unless you put him in at least a neutral offensive park.

Just now, wrathofhahn said:

What? Arenado went for 8 years 255.

That is a much better deal. He's a year older then Machado but has been much better.

Really no he isn't. fWAR over the last 4 years: Arenado 20.9, Machado 21.7.

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

Cant stress enough that the white sox payroll this year is $15 million over the oakland as and even more over the Rays. Both those teams may win 85 games plus again, we have the least position player talent in the league until eloy gets here (excluding baltimore). That $15 mill got us nothing. When you spend as poorly as hahn, having a $130 million payroll isn't much of an advantage over the rays when you can't identify, develop and draft 90% as well as they do.

This. So much this. Nice post. 

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

This offseason has been a total failure. If they miss on Bryce, there needs to be calls for Hahn to be fired.

We’ve been saying that for years...only a win total in the 50’s with attendance below 1.2 million gets that conversation even started in board meetings.

3 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

What? Arenado went for 8 years 255.

That is a much better deal. He's a year older then Machado but has been much better.

also has an opt out in year 3 vs year 5. Would take machados for machados age anytime.

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Really no he isn't. fWAR over the last 4 years: Arenado 20.9, Machado 21.7.

My entire goal in life is to now keep my fWAR in terms of “likes” at 50% of Balta’s cumulative total and simultaneously not get passed up by IHOP Waffleson.

Obviously I've done zero work on this and they have and it's not a particularly difficult formula...that said I always felt like fwar is too aggressive on park effects and it really skews negative for rockies players.

12 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

What? Arenado went for 8 years 255.

That is a much better deal. He's a year older then Machado but has been much better.

Where did this idea that Nolan Arenado is the best to ever play the game come from? Am I going insane?

All three of them are in the same ballpark, and quite frankly could be convincingly put in any order you choose. 

Edited February 26, 20197 yr by mqr

6 minutes ago, mqr said:

Where did this idea that Nolan Arenado is the best to ever play the game come from? Am I going insane?

Where in that comment did someone say best ever? He's been a great ballplayer throughout his career.

3 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Where in that comment did someone say best ever? He's been a great ballplayer throughout his career.

He’s not much better tha Machado, if he’s better at all. And earlier someone said he’s twice the player Harper is. 

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Really no he isn't. fWAR over the last 4 years: Arenado 20.9, Machado 21.7.

Bref:

Last 4 years he has averaged 6.3 WAR - 6.1 WAR/650. Machado last 4 years has averaged 5.4 WAR - 5 WAR/650

Regardless even if you feel they are even I much prefer Arenado deal. How can you look at both contracts and think Machado is some sort of bargain?

4 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Bref:

Last 4 years he has averaged 6.3 WAR - 6.1 WAR/650. Machado last 4 years has averaged 5.4 WAR - 5 WAR/650

Regardless even if you feel they are even I much prefer Arenado deal. How can you look at both contracts and think Machado is some sort of bargain?

Machado ages 26-31 seasons - 5 year 150 million then opt out

Arenado 28-30 seasons - 3 years 97.5 contract then opt out

Thats how I look at it, you get 2 more years of prime machado and longer guaranteed control. Machados is really good.

Delusional White Sox Fans “Well guys Kris Bryant will be a free agent after 2021.  Let’s wait for him, maybe we will get him?   He’s better than Machado anyway”.    Hahahahahahaha 

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Machado ages 26-31 seasons - 5 year 150 million then opt out

Arenado 28-30 seasons - 3 years 97.5 contract then opt out

Thats how I look at it, you get 2 more years of prime machado and longer guaranteed control. Machados is really good.

Arenado is only a year older not two. Or 1.2 years older to be exact.

I'd much rather have the contract the way the rockies have it set up either they'll get most of Arenado prime years and they'll pay a premium for that OR he'll opt in until age 35. Machado is much more likely to opt in because like you point out his opt out occurs when he is a year older. His contract will run into he's 36.

 

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

No.

Just, no.

The track records speak for themselves.

I don't care how much older arenado is, they are paying for his 28-30 seasons in the contract. I'd rather pay for the next 5 years at a 30 mill clip then get less years, at more money.

Now, obviously they had many years of cheap arenado so that's great, but contract wise Machados is good ,and the tail end risk is about the same as arenados.

51 minutes ago, mqr said:

He’s not much better tha Machado, if he’s better at all. And earlier someone said he’s twice the player Harper is. 

That was hyperbole on my part.  Obviously he isn't twice the player Harper is.  But, IMO, he is significantly better in all areas. 

30 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't care how much older arenado is, they are paying for his 28-30 seasons in the contract. I'd rather pay for the next 5 years at a 30 mill clip then get less years, at more money.

Now, obviously they had many years of cheap arenado so that's great, but contract wise Machados is good ,and the tail end risk is about the same as arenados.

None of us know how both players will age but when you start to get anything past 34 (32 is when aging curves mark the start of a steep decline) until proven otherwise they are writeoffs as far as I'm concerned. Arenado has one such year with his deal. Machado has two.

And I doubt at what 31-235d (5 years today) Machado is getting a 5 year 150 million offer taking him to 36-235d at least not unless something changes with the way FA is trending which is possible. Still I'd rather take my chances based on what we are seeing today.

I don't think we are going to agree. One thing that isn't being taken into account by either one of us is the fact he still had one arb year remaining and while that was torn up it probably was able to do with why they were able to get Arenado on a shorter deal at better terms. Otherwise he'd be hitting FA at two years older instead of just one.

Edited February 26, 20197 yr by wrathofhahn

I'm not surprised by this, the Rockies have a history of keeping their players. 

27 minutes ago, RickinIndiana said:

The track records speak for themselves.

Yes they do.