14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

What other above average tools does Jimenez have?

2/5.  Hit for average.  Hit for power.

Average to below average fielder (see Avi), below average arm (maybe "par" for LF) and slow foot speed...which will likely slow down over time as he puts on more weight.

Ernie Banks played shortstop. Babe Ruth Pitched. Extreme examples but you get my point.

I don’t see how it makes any sense to overpay for a bunch of Eloy’s much cheaper arbitration years to lock up one additional year of his services.

Won’t give 8 years and $300 million to a completely proven young star player but will give 8 years and $100 million to an unproven young player that you don’t need to?

Yet another reason the Sox need new management if this true.

Edited March 14, 20197 yr by Harper2Sox

shaking my head if this is true

I wish fans would stop blaming  JR/KW/RH  for not signing Machado.

The dude wanted to play in SD. plain and simple.  There are no reports that I am aware of that suggest that Lozano came back to the Sox, asked them to match SD's Offer, and JR refused.

Eloy can hit. If he plays 1st base or even is a DH, I want to see him signed long term. Get 'er did.

Edited March 14, 20197 yr by tray
spelling

How about a link that proves that Lozano came back to the Sox and offered them to match SD's Offer ?

I'm asking because I never saw that reported anywhere.

7 minutes ago, tray said:

How about a link that proves that Lozano came back to the Sox and offered them to match SD's Offer ?

I'm asking because I never saw that reported anywhere.

Everything that was reported about the Sox contract offer was a controlled leak by.....the Sox FO.

They wouldn't leak stuff that doesn't fit their narrative-

This is how I understand the final negotiations went:

" The White Sox made their last, best offer on Monday night: a 10-year deal worth $250 million guaranteed, plus incentives. If Machado hit all the escalators, he could max out at $350 million. A few hours earlier, the Padres had submitted theirs: $300 million, 10 years, opt-out after five. Fowler tried to sleep but couldn’t. He called Preller around 11:30 p.m. “Where are we?” he asked. Preller said there hadn’t been an update in a while. Maybe he was leaning the other way. Fowler told him to re-engage Lozano. :"

Lozano accepted that offer which only guaranteed 5 years at $150.  Was that deal offered to the White Sox? I don't think it was.

and then this from Machado's mouth:

" "I'm truly blessed to be here. I'm truly blessed to be a part of this organization," Machado said. "Since day one, since we met you, we knew it was the right fit for me and my wife to be here. We're very excited to be here and start this new journey of our baseball career, our lives -- to take on that San Diego weather and take on this team."

 

3 minutes ago, tray said:

Lozano accepted that offer which only guaranteed 5 years at $150.  Was that deal offered to the White Sox? I don't think it was.

and then this from Machado's mouth:

" "I'm truly blessed to be here. I'm truly blessed to be a part of this organization," Machado said. "Since day one, since we met you, we knew it was the right fit for me and my wife to be here. We're very excited to be here and start this new journey of our baseball career, our lives -- to take on that San Diego weather and take on this team."

 

Dude.

5/150? it's a player option, that money is guaranteed if Manny wants it. The Sox offer was a vesting option which meant the Sox would have been able to control whether the option vests. Just like they will with Yonder Alonso this year.

 

Manny would have said the same things about the White Sox, the Reds or the Toledo Mudhens.

Lozano used the Sox to leverage a deal to get Machado and his wife to the town they both wanted to live in. 

Hahn got played,, but given all the pressure from fans, I can't blame him for trying.    It is what it is.

 

Once again, post a link  with a report that  even suggests that  Lozano came beck to the White Sox and asked them to match SD's offer.

If he did, why were KW and Hahn so surprised when that deal got done under their noses?

4 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Also, funny enough, this would be the largest contract ever given out by the Sox.....and it's to a guy who has never played a major league game.

If they count the penalties and such wouldn't Robert's contract already fall into this category? 

6 minutes ago, tray said:

Once again, post a link  with a report that  even suggests that  Lozano came beck to the White Sox and asked them to match SD's offer.

If he did, why were KW and Hahn so surprised when that deal got done under their noses?

Your proof includes Manny saying something positive about San Diego after signing a massive contract and KW and Hahn acting surprised?  Really?  What more plausible reaction did you expect?  Manny dissing San Diego after signing or KW and Hahn coming out and saying their boss is cheap and will never pay market value for a premier player in their prime?

46 minutes ago, tray said:

This is how I understand the final negotiations went:

" The White Sox made their last, best offer on Monday night: a 10-year deal worth $250 million guaranteed, plus incentives. If Machado hit all the escalators, he could max out at $350 million. A few hours earlier, the Padres had submitted theirs: $300 million, 10 years, opt-out after five. Fowler tried to sleep but couldn’t. He called Preller around 11:30 p.m. “Where are we?” he asked. Preller said there hadn’t been an update in a while. Maybe he was leaning the other way. Fowler told him to re-engage Lozano. :"

Lozano accepted that offer which only guaranteed 5 years at $150.  Was that deal offered to the White Sox? I don't think it was.

and then this from Machado's mouth:

" "I'm truly blessed to be here. I'm truly blessed to be a part of this organization," Machado said. "Since day one, since we met you, we knew it was the right fit for me and my wife to be here. We're very excited to be here and start this new journey of our baseball career, our lives -- to take on that San Diego weather and take on this team."

 

They officially agreed at the two hour lunch with the Padres.

31 minutes ago, ptatc said:

If they count the penalties and such wouldn't Robert's contract already fall into this category? 

$68.5 million nope, it's Abreu original deal in 2014.

Edited March 14, 20197 yr by caulfield12

39 minutes ago, tray said:

Once again, post a link  with a report that  even suggests that  Lozano came beck to the White Sox and asked them to match SD's offer.

If he did, why were KW and Hahn so surprised when that deal got done under their noses?

Because they had no clue SD was going to blow their deal out of the water in terms of guaranteed dollars...not enough due diligence of competitor, relationship between Machado and Tatis, Jr., their shared agent, etc.

Something seems off. I don't see them committing 100 mil to only get one UFA year out of him. Not for a guy that hasn't faced a single pitch in the show yet. It doesn't make sense, and certainly doesn't fit in the mold of what these cheapskates normally do.

5 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Also, funny enough, this would be the largest contract ever given out by the Sox.....and it's to a guy who has never played a major league game.

Yeah. Kind of more dumb than funny, though.

4 hours ago, mqr said:

Honestly this would just make me more mad they didn’t shell out for Machado. But I’m rooting for the player to get his moola. 

 

Also so if this offer is on the table it would be already taken yeah?

Agreed 100%.

If you make a mistake at the poker table (Machado negotiation) and you keep it thinking about that mistake you will go bust.

 

before I comment on how I feel about this deal I want to give two opposition positions. Firstly this could be an over-adjust based on losing the first hand,  which will result in a new mistake.

 

secondly this could be we have forgotten about the first mistake and are not measuring decisions by it (like this board now do, with all decisions being X = Machado’s offer).

Maybe this is our ONE AND ONLY SHOT to get more control years of Eloy and we know the moment he’s up and hitting 300ba the player will want to test free agency. Basically we are in my view sensibly doing whatever is necessary to get an extra Eloy year as that is how we win. 

 

In a vacuum, not measuring it against Machado I’d do this, simply as this could be our only shot to get more Eloy years, albeit I can see the counter points very clearly. 

Edited March 14, 20197 yr by Colinski

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

White Sox are NOT cheap, they're now too generous to totally unproven players...THANK GOD they didn't sign Moncada to this type of deal at some point early in the 2017 minor league season when he was tearing up Charlotte.

Extensions worked pretty well with eaton, sale and Quintana.

52 minutes ago, dominik-keul@gmx.de said:

Extensions worked pretty well with eaton, sale and Quintana.

Not in their first years.  Anderson was the earliest. 

We should just wait for Lindor after 2021...then finally win AL Central in 2022.

 

Trout and Posey after 2 years.  Freeman 3 years.  Braun and Kyle Seager 3 years.

Those are the only ones with under 3 years of service to get $100 million+ extensions.

The White Sox are fucking nuts.   

Wil Myers 3+, CarGo 2+.  

Justin Morneau, 3+ for 6 years and $80 million in 2008, Hanley Ramirez, 2+ years of service, 6 year deal for $70 million in 2008, Alex Rios (yes, a reminder of what can go wrong) $70 million over seven years after 3 years of service, Mike Mikolas after 2+ years, 4/$68 million.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/extension tracker

Edited March 14, 20197 yr by caulfield12

3 hours ago, tray said:

I wish fans would stop blaming  JR/KW/RH  for not signing Machado.

The dude wanted to play in SD. plain and simple.  There are no reports that I am aware of that suggest that Lozano came back to the Sox, asked them to match SD's Offer, and JR refused.

Eloy can hit. If he plays 1st base or even is a DH, I want to see him signed long term. Get 'er did.

No Kenny, keep dreaming.  He went to the team that offered him the most money, as most players do.  The Sox were $50 million guaranteed short on their offer.  Would you pass on $50 million more guaranteed dollars?  No?  Well neither did Machado.  You don’t need a report.  Simply use common sense.  The Sox (KW) admitted afterwards that they couldn’t go that high on the guaranteed money.  The Sox sat on their $250 million dollar deal for weeks and didn’t budge because they thought it was good enough and that’s why we were all painfully waiting for a signing that never happened.  Manny held out and got what he wanted all along ($300 million guaranteed) from another team.

Edited March 14, 20197 yr by Harper2Sox

Believe in the Eloy.

Reports during negotiations said Machado did not want to go out west. Of course 50 extra million can convince people a lot of things. If money was equal I have 0 doubt hed be here.

Just now, Buehrle>Wood said:

Reports during negotiations said Machado did not want to go out west. Of course 50 extra million can convince people a lot of things. If money was equal I have 0 doubt hed be here.

This.