April 30, 20196 yr 9 minutes ago, raBBit said: Nova is clearly the worst move. What the Sox traded was likely insignificant, but the fact that they gave something up in order to pay Nova $9M+ is a really bad look considering how the free agent market played out this offseason. --------------------------- Wade Miley 1 year $4.5M Clay Bucholz 1 year $3.0M Gio Gonzalez 1 year $2M Jeremy Hellickson 1 year $1.3M Tyson Ross 1 year $5.75M Matt Shoemaker 1 year $3.5M Marco Estrada 1 year $4M Drew Pomeranz 1 year $1.5 ------------------------- White Sox pay Nova 1 year $9.1M and gave Santana $4M to walk away from. Any 2 of those pitchers above +1M on their contract too and you spend less than the Sox did on Nova/Santana* (*if Santana wasn't dumb and didn't opt out). Hahn did not give the market time to develop. Those who waited were rewarded. Those who got 4/5 starts in Deceember. Sox & Tigers. Ironically, the FO was aggressive and proactive in the SP market, where they could have/should have waited, and they were ultra-patient in the market for elite talent, where they should have been more aggressive.
April 30, 20196 yr 7 hours ago, raBBit said: Nova is clearly the worst move. What the Sox traded was likely insignificant, but the fact that they gave something up in order to pay Nova $9M+ is a really bad look considering how the free agent market played out this offseason. --------------------------- Wade Miley 1 year $4.5M Clay Bucholz 1 year $3.0M Gio Gonzalez 1 year $2M Jeremy Hellickson 1 year $1.3M Tyson Ross 1 year $5.75M Matt Shoemaker 1 year $3.5M Marco Estrada 1 year $4M Drew Pomeranz 1 year $1.5 ------------------------- White Sox pay Nova 1 year $9.1M and gave Santana $4M to walk away from. Any 2 of those pitchers above +1M on their contract too and you spend less than the Sox did on Nova/Santana* (*if Santana wasn't dumb and didn't opt out). Hahn did not give the market time to develop. Those who waited were rewarded. Those who got 4/5 starts in Deceember. Sox & Tigers. I agree. Didn’t understand the Nova trade from the time it was made. The fact they absorbed the entire $9M and gave up a prospect (albeit a very mediocre one) never made sense to me. I would have preferred a Charlie Morton signing at $15M AAV for two years to serve as a TOR guy while the rest of the kids in the rotation developed.
April 30, 20196 yr 9 hours ago, raBBit said: Nova is clearly the worst move. What the Sox traded was likely insignificant, but the fact that they gave something up in order to pay Nova $9M+ is a really bad look considering how the free agent market played out this offseason. --------------------------- Wade Miley 1 year $4.5M Clay Bucholz 1 year $3.0M Gio Gonzalez 1 year $2M Jeremy Hellickson 1 year $1.3M Tyson Ross 1 year $5.75M Matt Shoemaker 1 year $3.5M Marco Estrada 1 year $4M Drew Pomeranz 1 year $1.5 ------------------------- White Sox pay Nova 1 year $9.1M and gave Santana $4M to walk away from. Any 2 of those pitchers above +1M on their contract too and you spend less than the Sox did on Nova/Santana* (*if Santana wasn't dumb and didn't opt out). Hahn did not give the market time to develop. Those who waited were rewarded. Those who got 4/5 starts in Deceember. Sox & Tigers. This. I've said it elsewhere...….. Hahn is very popular with the other GM's.
April 30, 20196 yr 9 hours ago, raBBit said: Nova is clearly the worst move. What the Sox traded was likely insignificant, but the fact that they gave something up in order to pay Nova $9M+ is a really bad look considering how the free agent market played out this offseason. --------------------------- Wade Miley 1 year $4.5M Clay Bucholz 1 year $3.0M Gio Gonzalez 1 year $2M Jeremy Hellickson 1 year $1.3M Tyson Ross 1 year $5.75M Matt Shoemaker 1 year $3.5M Marco Estrada 1 year $4M Drew Pomeranz 1 year $1.5 ------------------------- White Sox pay Nova 1 year $9.1M and gave Santana $4M to walk away from. Any 2 of those pitchers above +1M on their contract too and you spend less than the Sox did on Nova/Santana* (*if Santana wasn't dumb and didn't opt out). Hahn did not give the market time to develop. Those who waited were rewarded. Those who got 4/5 starts in Deceember. Sox & Tigers. Honestly, I would have preferred James Shields, a guy who tossed over 200 innings last year and the young pitchers respect, at like $1m than Nova.
April 30, 20196 yr 5 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Honestly, I would have preferred James Shields, a guy who tossed over 200 innings last year and the young pitchers respect, at like $1m than Nova. Keep in mind Shields was pulling in around $20 million a year the last several years. Most likely the reason no one gave him a job is he probably isn't willing to work for peanuts.
April 30, 20196 yr 12 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Honestly, I would have preferred James Shields, a guy who tossed over 200 innings last year and the young pitchers respect, at like $1m than Nova. Eh, no one else signed Shields either. He isn’t really needed on this team either. What Hahn did right was find a youngish cheap guy like Banuelos. He should have just tried to find undervalued guys like him on the cheap. Remember, it worked great with Quintana years ago. And Giolito, Lopez, Rodon, and eventually Cease will all need rotation spots. Potentially adding a couple decent 4/5 starters with years of cheap control to the young group of starters (and Kopech next year) is more important than acquiring mediocre vets like Nova and Santana on one year deals in an expected losing season. Their potential value in trades isn’t worth the innings you are wasting on them. Edited April 30, 20196 yr by Harper2Sox
April 30, 20196 yr 21 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said: Eh, no one else signed Shields either. He isn’t really needed on this team either. What Hahn did right was find a youngish cheap guy like Banuelos. He should have just tried to find undervalued guys like him on the cheap. Remember, it worked great with Quintana years ago. And Giolito, Lopez, Rodon, and eventually Cease will all need rotation spots. Potentially adding a couple decent 4/5 starters with years of cheap control to the young group of starters (and Kopech next year) is more important than acquiring mediocre vets like Nova and Santana on one year deals in an expected losing season. Their potential value in trades isn’t worth the innings you are wasting on them. I would prefer to just fill it with young, interesting former spects like Banuelos as well but clearly they thought otherwise. I'm saying if the whole purpose was to grab a veteran to eat innings, Shields on a cheap deal and his (200+ IP) > Nova (161 IP last year).
April 30, 20196 yr 11 hours ago, raBBit said: Nova is clearly the worst move. What the Sox traded was likely insignificant, but the fact that they gave something up in order to pay Nova $9M+ is a really bad look considering how the free agent market played out this offseason. --------------------------- Wade Miley 1 year $4.5M Clay Bucholz 1 year $3.0M Gio Gonzalez 1 year $2M Jeremy Hellickson 1 year $1.3M Tyson Ross 1 year $5.75M Matt Shoemaker 1 year $3.5M Marco Estrada 1 year $4M Drew Pomeranz 1 year $1.5 ------------------------- White Sox pay Nova 1 year $9.1M and gave Santana $4M to walk away from. Any 2 of those pitchers above +1M on their contract too and you spend less than the Sox did on Nova/Santana* (*if Santana wasn't dumb and didn't opt out). Hahn did not give the market time to develop. Those who waited were rewarded. Those who got 4/5 starts in Deceember. Sox & Tigers. Small sample size and hindsight are wonderful things to make an argument seem better. Even better for your argument is ignoring that the Sox were prioritizing ( rightly or wrongly) a 1 year innings eater type for the 4th spot in the rotation and you left out significant incentive clauses. Look at most of those guys innings pitched last year. Miley 80.2 , Buchholz 98.1 and 7.1 in 2017 , Hellickson 91.1 , Ross 26.1 , Shoemaker 36 , Pomeranz 74, If you want to make the argument they would have been good choices for the 5th spot . I can agree with that but given most of their injury history's surely not innings eaters. Cross Gio off the list unless you really think the Sox should have waited til March 19th to sign him. Also you got his salary wrong . Base salary was $3M with a bonus of $300,00 per start with a $12M max. Hellickson also has up to $3M in incentives based on how many starts he makes. Pomeranz can earn an extra $5M if he hits all his incentives also. I was actually all for signing one of Miley, Pomeranz or Buchholz for the 5th starter but I also didn't want to go into the season with Covey or Banuelos and one of those guys as the 4th and 5th starters especially with Rodon coming off shoulder surgery and with Giolito having been terrible last year. Those reasons are precisely why the Sox wanted a guy like Nova to replace Shields. Estrada pitched a decent amount of innings last year but is also 35 years old with a 2018 ERA of 5.64 The last 3 years Nova had been a consistent eaters eater with an ERA of no worse than 4.19 for a full season. Pretty sure he will have some positive regression. Edited April 30, 20196 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
May 1, 20196 yr What does Nova do for the 2019 Sox season that any other cheaper signing or random starter from the minors like Covey couldn’t do? Be bad and eat innings in a non-competitive season? What’s the difference? Oh, about $8 million dollars. Edited May 1, 20196 yr by Harper2Sox
May 1, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, Harper2Sox said: What does Nova do for the 2019 Sox season that any other cheaper signing or random starter from the minors like Covey couldn’t do? Be bad and eat innings in a non-competitive season? What’s the difference? Oh, about $8 million dollars. Well...he can pitch really slow. Adds about an hour to the game. Maybe JR likes the concessions part of that.
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