If this team gets really good he is the weakest link.

2 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

If this team gets really good he is the weakest link.

Unless you factor in bench guys like Yolmer who are in the starting lineup, Ricky already is the weakest link.

Edited August 21, 20196 yr by Moan4Yoan

14 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Im not even a math guy, I'm a Cop.  But when you have certain teams that are always winning and always doing the right thing with players and development YOU FOLLOW THAT TREND.  To say you aren't going to do that because you've been a garbage manager in the league for however long is a disgrace to the fans and people like me that have gone to a considerable amount of games this season.  Fuck Ricky and the FO

Haha, great point.  God forbid Ricky actually learn and try something new...  he may actually improve from a terrible manager to a mediocre one!  ?

2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Unless you factor in bench guys like Yolmer who are in the starting lineup, Ricky already is the weakest link.

Yes, other than all the weaker links he is the weakest. 

Basically seems like we're guaranteeing Jose Abreu a spot in the White Sox Hall of Fame and a lifetime coaching position, or at least deal like Jim Thome has with the front office.   Cannot figure out to play said player at DH instead of 1B, of course.

 

Also agree with Jack Parkman here...if you're anything resembling a "sane" baseball fan, you have to start watching other teams/players, studying what GOOD or even GREAT front offices are doing differently...watching Charlotte or the minor league teams.   Worst-case scenario, cheering against the Cubs, but even that has lost a lot of its allure after 2016.  I guess cheering for their dynasty to come crashing down, that's something.  

Edited August 21, 20196 yr by caulfield12

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Why not? None of them are any good. If he was playing any of the others the case could be made for Jay to take their spot.

The only winning move is not to play. 

Is that last line from War Games ?

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Is that last line from War Games ?

Haha, I didn’t catch that.  It is.  1983, also the last time Ricky had an original thought as a manager.

 

In the image of the GM.

2 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

I think you might be getting one former White Sox owner confused with a current White Sox owner in terms of who almost “moved the team to St. Pete”.  

Veeck helped save the Sox from moving to Seattle.  Reinsdorf threatened to move the team to St. Pete if the state didn’t meet his demand to make him a future billionaire by building him a stadium entirely funded off the backs of taxpayers, while also giving him a 40 year lease with annual guaranteed taxpayer-provided subsidies.  

Meanwhile, speaking of those subsidies and all of the revenues Reinsdorf has received from the new ballpark, if you thought Veeck was a “terrible owner”, who operated WITHOUT those taxpayer, built-in advantages, what in the world can you possibly think of Reinsdorf, particularly when you think of the franchise’s record since the park opened in 1991.

Its fair that I misremembered a bit...but the fundamental memory from the time 1975-81 was a constant state of worry that the team was going to fold, or get taken over by the league or get moved to another city.   The team was a laughing stock and outside of the 77 Hitmen (which Veeck immediately sold off the good players) was terrible.  As for Reinsdorf threatening to move the team...Comisky park was an 80 year old dump with about a third of the seats obstructed view.  The team needed a new stadium and Chicago was not being helpful.   The White Sox since Reinsdorf took over in 1982 to the start of the rebuild have been 2850-2750 with the only WS in 100 years.  OK not glory but not a laughing stock.   I just fear the abyss and this kind of talk from Renteria destroys a lot of hope that I have been putting in "the new way".  

  

There is no way this team will succeed with this type of thinking.  Shit rolls downhill so if he feels comfortable saying this to the media there is most likely somebody above him that agrees.  You can't manage and run clubs like the early to mid 2000's anymore.

12 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

There is no way this team will succeed with this type of thinking.  Shit rolls downhill so if he feels comfortable saying this to the media there is most likely somebody above him that agrees.  You can't manage and run clubs like the early to mid 2000's anymore.

Try the late 1990's.

Moneyball was published in 2003.

We're probably better off just reverting back to the 2004-2005 method of competing again.

Edited August 21, 20196 yr by caulfield12

47 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Haha, I didn’t catch that.  It is.  1983, also the last time Ricky had an original thought as a manager.

 

It helps being old once in a while. I really liked that movie when it came out and Ally Sheedy was cute as a button.

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Try the late 1990's.

Moneyball was published in 2003.

We're probably better off just reverting back to the 2004-2005 method of competing again.

What the Astros, Dodgers, Rays etc are doing is a league above the moneyball era.

A couple more thoughts.

I've lived in Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, and Houston markets, and I cannot ever remember a franchise that has gone after their own fans nearly as often as this one. AJ Hinch gets mad when another team throws at his players, our manager swears when people dare question him.

I think this tells us a lot about how these guys really are indoors - they really are surrounded by yes men. They go around all day with no one willing to step out of line, to propose anything new, or even to suggest that doing things differently might produce different results. They are so used to it that the only way any criticism leaks through - in the occasional press availability - they blow up at them over and over. Williams, Stone, Renteria, and I'm sure Cooper more than once although we've stopped paying attention to those, and that's all just this season. 

Rick Renteria has a .423 career winning mark, he is 258-352 as a big league manager. But he's absolutely angry at the concept that he might ever incorporate anything new into his managing style. His GM doesn't push him on that, he doesn't work with him on that, he's just in charge and he's absolutely earned it? That's absolutely not how it works in Houston. If management has something they want to try, they work with Hinch on it, and if Hinch has a problem with it, things stay behind closed doors. When people question AJ Hinch, he explains his thinking, admits sometimes things go wrong, and here's what we'll do about it if needed.

It's the same setup as the rest of the franchise - how dare you question us, we are owed your allegiance and your money. Everyone around us has told us we're doing a great job, just you angry folks in the press. 

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

A couple more thoughts.

I've lived in Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, and Houston markets, and I cannot ever remember a franchise that has gone after their own fans nearly as often as this one. AJ Hinch gets mad when another team throws at his players, our manager swears when people dare question him.

I think this tells us a lot about how these guys really are indoors - they really are surrounded by yes men. They go around all day with no one willing to step out of line, to propose anything new, or even to suggest that doing things differently might produce different results. They are so used to it that the only way any criticism leaks through - in the occasional press availability - they blow up at them over and over. Williams, Stone, Renteria, and I'm sure Cooper more than once although we've stopped paying attention to those, and that's all just this season. 

Rick Renteria has a .423 career winning mark, he is 258-352 as a big league manager. But he's absolutely angry at the concept that he might ever incorporate anything new into his managing style. His GM doesn't push him on that, he doesn't work with him on that, he's just in charge and he's absolutely earned it? That's absolutely not how it works in Houston. If management has something they want to try, they work with Hinch on it, and if Hinch has a problem with it, things stay behind closed doors. When people question AJ Hinch, he explains his thinking, admits sometimes things go wrong, and here's what we'll do about it if needed.

It's the same setup as the rest of the franchise - how dare you question us, we are owed your allegiance and your money. Everyone around us has told us we're doing a great job, just you angry folks in the press. 

Excellent.

When Houston was hiring a manager they asked all of their candidates if they would be okay just going with the lineup handed down from the front office.

They removed any candidate that said yes.

They still valued the information a manager has on which player is tired, which needs a boost, what's going on in the clubhouse, etc. They just don't want a manager fighting the rest of the org on the information, players and tactics they want to see on the field.

2 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Im not even a math guy, I'm a Cop.  But when you have certain teams that are always winning and always doing the right thing with players and development YOU FOLLOW THAT TREND.  To say you aren't going to do that because you've been a garbage manager in the league for however long is a disgrace to the fans and people like me that have gone to a considerable amount of games this season.  Fuck Ricky and the FO

More than not following it...they are angry at the concept that people might want them to. They look at the Astros, Dodgers, Red Sox, and say "you're bleeping doing it wrong!". 

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

This organization is in the dark ages and won't win a damn thing until they wake the fuck up. It has taken 20 years but it's getting hard to watch right now, and hearing shit like this coming from management.

Definitely this.  Every time I start to think maybe I’m just being too critical someone does/says something that reminds me how far they are from being an elite organization.  I swear they’re trying to piss me off.

Edited August 21, 20196 yr by RTC

2 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Haha, great point.  God forbid Ricky actually learn and try something new...  he may actually improve from a terrible manager to a mediocre one!  ?

Never going to happen.  They’ve got a pitching coach who refuses to adopt any semblance of modern pitching thought, and had an announcer that ranted about some stupid ass TWTW and they seemed to love him.

I can’t believe this never came up, but I’m convinced the whole Manny friends and family plan had it’s roots in signing-Thome-will-get-us-Konerko-back.  I’m fully convinced they thought “hey, it worked before”.

This organization has demonstrated no capacity for forward thinking.

2 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Its fair that I misremembered a bit...but the fundamental memory from the time 1975-81 was a constant state of worry that the team was going to fold, or get taken over by the league or get moved to another city.   The team was a laughing stock and outside of the 77 Hitmen (which Veeck immediately sold off the good players) was terrible.  As for Reinsdorf threatening to move the team...Comisky park was an 80 year old dump with about a third of the seats obstructed view.  The team needed a new stadium and Chicago was not being helpful.   The White Sox since Reinsdorf took over in 1982 to the start of the rebuild have been 2850-2750 with the only WS in 100 years.  OK not glory but not a laughing stock.   I just fear the abyss and this kind of talk from Renteria destroys a lot of hope that I have been putting in "the new way".  

  

The White Sox have been far more of a “laughingstock” these past seven years under Reinsdorf than Bill Veeck’s teams were from his second go-around as owner from ‘76-‘80.   

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2014/09/01/bo-porter-fired-astros-culture-jeff-luhnow/14928347/

The problem is that our front office and manager are perfectly aligned...which is a BAD thing. 

Because Bo Porter, a former football player and emblematic of the KW approach, is representative of Rick Renteria in just about every way possible.

And Luhnow wasn't having it...

Edited August 21, 20196 yr by caulfield12

What Balta1701 said and then some. The White Sox FO work overtime in circling their wagons and lashing out. In the meantime, their team has gone through a terrible decade and no one can predict when the team will start winning.

A note to Ricky: How about placing your best hitters higher in the order so they get more ABs and place your weaker hitters lower so they get less ABs?

5 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

The White Sox have been far more of a “laughingstock” these past seven years under Reinsdorf than Bill Veeck’s teams were from his second go-around as owner from ‘76-‘80.   

This is the most ridiculous comment.  The team has had a worse record in the last few years because THAT'S THE PLAN.  I was mixed on the idea of the rebuild but many on this board were pushing hard for it...and in retrospect I think it was right and smart and the actions the team has taken can all be explained within the concept of the goal of short term pain for long term greatness (See Astros, Cubs).  There was no "plan" in the Veeck years outside of...how do we pay the electric bill.  That was a dark, hopeless period...this is a dark period filled with an extraordinary amount of hope.  

7 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

The White Sox have been far more of a “laughingstock” these past seven years under Reinsdorf than Bill Veeck’s teams were from his second go-around as owner from ‘76-‘80.   

Really?  I will admit to sad and pathetic now, but laughter from the rest of the league does not equal the shorts or Disc Demolition.

10 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Really?  I will admit to sad and pathetic now, but laughter from the rest of the league does not equal the shorts or Disc Demolition.

"Drake LaRoche is our real team leader!" and "I don't think you'll be wearing those jerseys now" are at least worthy entries on the same list.