A Realistic Offseason

[BigHurt3515]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

And what exactly does that prove?  Most objective Sox fans realized that MM and BH would be great. but that it was at least at year early.  

That it is very possible we can strike out in free agency again even though all signs point to us being big players? You make it seem like it is a guarantee we are going to sign quality players but people were saying the same thing last year when there wasn't as high of a market as there will be this year.

Edited November 5, 2019 by BigHurt3515

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

14 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

If he isnt correct, then you should be able to quickly provide evidence of the several occassions with the  Sox beating out other teams for top MLB FA's. 

Not sure if you're willingly ignoring the point, or what... but if they don't offer the most money they wont get the player as is the case with pretty much every other team in the league.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

This is fair. The Sox will spend money, it just needs to start being big contracts for elite talent. No more spread the contracts amongst marginal players to avoid risk. 

I guess it depends on what your definition of "elite" is.  If Grandal and Wheeler fit that description, yah.  If its Rendon and Cole, prepare to be disapointed.  Grandal and Wheeler are both awesome fits for this franchise, and while both may beat the largest contract handed out by the Sox, they aren't going to be franchise crippling deals.  The Sox already have a really good young, cheap and controllable core.  They just need to fill in the gaps with productive players. They have more than enough money to do that over the next 2 offseasons.  

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, BigHurt3515 said:

That is very possible we can strike out in free agency again even though all signs point to us being big players? You make it seem like it is a guarantee we are going to sign quality players but people were saying the same thing last year when there wasn't as high of a market as there will be this year.

THE WHITE SOX ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A $65M PAYROLL.  I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS SO COMPLICATED FOR SOME TO UNDERSTAND.

[mqr]

1 minute ago, Orlando said:

Worked out pretty well for the twins last year 

Brewers, Braves

[Chicago White Sox]

28 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Why were the Sox offering the most money for Machado? Because all of his desirable destinations didn't sit at the table. If you take the Padres deal out of it and add the Yankees and Red Sox in at 250 million, like our deal, who would he sign with? 

There are certainly a handful of teams that are more desirable all else being equal (Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers), but after them the Sox more or less the same as most other clubs.  They are definitely not one of the lease desirable teams to play for like Jack Parkman suggested.

[BigHurt3515]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

I guess it depends on what your definition of "elite" is.  If Grandal and Wheeler fit that description, yah.  If its Rendon and Cole, prepare to be disapointed.  Grandal and Wheeler are both awesome fits for this franchise, and while both may beat the largest contract handed out by the Sox, they aren't going to be franchise crippling deals.  The Sox already have a really good young, cheap and controllable core.  They just need to fill in the gaps with productive players. They have more than enough money to do that over the next 2 offseasons.  

I agree but be ready to be disappointed, I don't think we will get either.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Can we just admit that no one actually knows what they are talking about when it comes to players and their personal preference? 

Saying that all players are robots that take the highest penny they are offered is just as dumb as saying no one wants to play for the Sox. There are a lot of factors and not all players have the same priorities.
 

Players set the market. Players that take less to play somewhere do exist but it's a very small percentage. The union frowns upon this. The sport isnt capped. The only way for salaries to grow is for the union participants to maximize their returns.

[SonofaRoache]

Ok

Edited November 5, 2019 by SonofaRoache

[ChiSox59]

Just now, BigHurt3515 said:

I agree but be ready to be disappointed, I don't think we will get either.

What a shocking take! 

[BigHurt3515]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

THE WHITE SOX ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A $65M PAYROLL.  I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS SO COMPLICATED FOR SOME TO UNDERSTAND.

Nobody is saying they won't sign anyone. But who cares if we sign a 4 or 5 starting pitcher and an average RF/DH? Where does that get us?

I think they are going to end up overpaying for average talent. We won't sign a top 5 FA (Cole, Rendon, Stras, Grandal, Wheeler) IMO.

[mqr]

3 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

Nobody is saying they won't sign anyone. But who cares if we sign a 4 or 5 starting pitcher and an average RF/DH? Where does that get us?

I think they are going to end up overpaying for average talent. We won't sign a top 5 FA (Cole, Rendon, Stras, Grandal, Wheeler) IMO.

Roughly 3-4 wins better at each position you just listed.

Those are places the Sox could greatly improve just by filling each of those positions where everyone's only qualification is 'Belongs in the MLB'. Aim Higher, but don't do nothing. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by mqr

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

No one said it was because they played in Chicago. The argument is mostly because JR has yet to outbid teams for top players and runs two downtrodden organizations. This makes his Chicago teams less desirable, not the city itself. So to overcome this lack of desirability, the Sox will need to overpay. 

So you somehow go from...

The sox dont get top players because they dont offer the most money...

to

The Sox need to overpay to sign anyone because no one wants to play for the organization. 

Most of us are saying the most money wins in free agency. You agreed with Jack who is saying the Sox need to do even more than your standard team because players have some weird anti-Sox belief.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, BigHurt3515 said:

Nobody is saying they won't sign anyone. But who cares if we sign a 4 or 5 starting pitcher and an average RF/DH? Where does that get us?

I think they are going to end up overpaying for average talent. We won't sign a top 5 FA (Cole, Rendon, Stras, Grandal, Wheeler) IMO.

Signing a 4 or 5 SP and an average RF/DH gets the Sox payroll to like $75-90M depending on your definition of 4/5 SP and "average RF/DH".  This is still unrealistic.  

[BigHurt3515]

Just now, mqr said:

Roughly 3-4 wins better at each position you just listed.

Cool, so we spent money to maybe get 2nd place in the division. Say we get Calhoun, Thames, and Bumgarner. Yeah that makes us better this year but what does that do for the future of the organization? You have to bring in a longer term player with more upside but I see this organization settling.

[SonofaRoache]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So you somehow go from...

The sox dont get top players because they dont offer the most money...

to

The Sox need to overpay to sign anyone because no one wants to play for the organization. 

Most of us are saying the most money wins in free agency. You agreed with Jack who is saying the Sox need to do even more than your standard team because players have some weird anti-Sox belief.

It isn't a one or the other thing. The Sox dont get top players at market value when other teams are involved because they are not as desirable. In turn, the Sox do not overpay top players due to their lack of desirability either. I would have no problem if Cole says he hates JR and Kenny, but still signs because we give him the biggest deal. But, odds are we won't. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by SonofaRoache

[BigHurt3515]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Signing a 4 or 5 SP and an average RF/DH gets the Sox payroll to like $75-90M depending on your definition of 4/5 SP and "average RF/DH".  This is still unrealistic.  

Based on what? Seems like you have blind optimism. What makes this off-season a fail to you? As long as we spend 40M you are happy?

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

Cool, so we spent money to maybe get 2nd place in the division. Say we get Calhoun, Thames, and Bumgarner. Yeah that makes us better this year but what does that do for the future of the organization? You have to bring in a longer term player with more upside but I see this organization settling.

An outside shot at a wild card game, and still the flexibility to get better in FA? 

Y'know what definitely does nothing for this team? Playing Charlie Tilson's and Ryan Cordell's

Edited November 5, 2019 by mqr

[Jack Parkman]

I think the Sox have their top dollar where they feel comfortable with a deal, and absolutely refuse to take any sort of risk. If the dollar amount on a player exits their comfort zone, they're out on that player. I also believe that their player valuations are outdated, and as such their top dollar is way below market value. 

[BigHurt3515]

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

An outside shot at a wild card game, and still the flexibility to get better in FA? 

That would depend on the contracts given.

[BackDoorBreach]

4 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

Based on what? Seems like you have blind optimism. What makes this off-season a fail to you? As long as we spend 40M you are happy?

Jesus Christ.  Dude they played with a 90 million dollar payroll last year in a rebuild year.  That payroll could have been in the 120's in a rebuild year if they ended up with Machado or Harper.

Based on that, it's pretty safe to assume they aren't going to play 2020 with a Miami Marlins payroll.

Edited November 5, 2019 by BackDoorBreach

[SonofaRoache]

2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Jesus Christ.  Dude they played with a 90 million dollar payroll last year in a rebuild year.  That payroll could have been in the 120's in a rebuild year if they ended up with Machado or Harper.

Based on that, it's pretty safe to assume they aten't going to play 2020 with a Miami Marlins payroll.

I think he means spends 40 million no matter the players brought in during FA. 40 million spent on 4 meh players or 40 million on two good players for instance. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by SonofaRoache

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Jesus Christ.  Dude they played with a 90 million dollar payroll last year in a rebuild year.  That payroll could have been in the 120's in a rebuild year if they ended up with Machado or Harper.

Based on that, it's pretty safe to assume they aren't going to play 2020 with a Miami Marlins payroll.

I think their internal budget is around ~130M and I don't expect them to exceed that over the next 5 seasons. It's kind of why I don't think they're going to add much, because in a year or two they're going to reach that easily just with Moncada/Gio arbitration. They're going to try to piece things together like they did in 2015-16 with short term deals. (1-2 years) 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

That would depend on the contracts given.

Two of those guys you listed aren't getting anything more than a year.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

10 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

 

 

9 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

It isn't a one or the other thing. The Sox dont get top players at market value when other teams are involved because they are not as desirable. In turn, the Sox do not overpay top players due to their lack of desirability either. I would have no problem if Cole says he hates JR and Kenny, but still signs because we give him the biggest deal. But, odds are we won't. 

Name one time the White Sox have offered more money or the same as another team and came up short.

The White Sox reportedly didnt offer more than st Louis for Robert yet he's here.

Now, you're turn.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run