A Realistic Offseason

[ChiSox59]

11 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

No one is blindly pessimistic.  As you said, the Sox have earned it.  I don't see any reason to expect the Sox to act like a big boy franchise.  It was nothing but optimism last year.  Then not only did they miss, but they ran around spewing the nonsense that they thought they had the best offer, which smacked of incompetence.  That does not inspire confidence.  

All I know to expect this offseason is the Sox trading more bonus pool money away to teams that want to build a better organization.

The Sox may have whiffed, but they're not in a meaningfully worse position for doing so.  One could argue they're in a better position with a budding superstar in Moncada at 3B and not  owing Manny Macho $270M over the next 9 seasons. And they still have the $250M they offered to Machado to spend.  

The Sox are not suddenly going to operate as one of the lowest payrolls in the league moving forward.  The negative nancys continually disregard that.  They could sign Wheeler, Grandal, Abreu and Encarnacion and still be below average.  

Edited November 5, 2019 by ChiSox59

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The. Sox. Are. Not. A. Large. Market. Team. 

Despite playing in Chicago. 

Anyone who can't acknowledge that the Cubs own at least 65% of baseball fans in this city just has their head in the sand. 

The Sox area is the south side of the City proper and the south/near SW Burbs. That might be 1/4 of the population of the Chicago metro area. 

The Sox are closer to the remainder of the AL Central in market size. You could argue Detroit having a larger market than the Sox. 

There are only 3 teams in the MLB that reach more TVs. There are only two markets where player x's face on a highway billboard or a subway commercial would be seen by more people. That's not getting into the fact that all but like 4 players get endorsement money in the hundreds of thousands. 

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

The Sox may have whiffed, but they're not in a meaningfully worse position for doing so.  One could argue they're in a better position with a budding superstar in Moncada at 3B and now owing Manny Macho $270M over the next 9 seasons. And they still have the $250M they offered to Machado to spend.  

The Sox are not suddenly going to operate as one of the lowest payrolls in the league moving forward.  The negative nancys continually disregard that.  They could sign Wheeler, Grandal, Abreu and Encarnacion and still be below average.  

What evidence do you have for this?  

[SonofaRoache]

8 minutes ago, mqr said:

Says who?

You guys are just projecting. The Sox don't sign the best players becasue they don't offer the most money. End of story.

If I'm so wrong you can prove it. Please provide me links to experts that predict the Sox will sign any highly covered free agents this year. Please provide me links showing the previously highly coveted MLB free agents the Sox have signed? And not players who hadn't proved to be top notch in the MLB prior to signing. The question I was answering is why the experts aren't linking us to top names, so any info you can provide will be helpful. 

[ChiSox59]

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

What evidence do you have for this?  

That the Sox aren't going to suddenly operate as one of the lowest payrolls in the league moving forward?

Or that the Negative Nancys conveniently ignore future financial obligations in every negative nancy post? 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The. Sox. Are. Not. A. Large. Market. Team. 

Despite playing in Chicago. 

Anyone who can't acknowledge that the Cubs own at least 65% of baseball fans in this city just has their head in the sand. 

The Sox area is the south side of the City proper and the south/near SW Burbs. That might be 1/4 of the population of the Chicago metro area. 

The Sox are closer to the remainder of the AL Central in market size. You could argue Detroit having a larger market than the Sox. 

Jack, I'm not sure what you're not grasping but market size is about potential eye balls. That's what advertisers sell too, and those advertisers pay based on market share - not your perceived white Sox fan total. Therefore, a major athlete signing in Chicago draws a lot of eyeballs and attention.

Advertisers pay more in Chicago than Detroit and Minneapolis. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

If I'm so wrong you can prove it. Please provide me links to experts that predict the Sox will sign any highly covered free agents this year. Please provide me links showing the previously highly coveted MLB free agents the Sox have signed? And not players who hadn't proved to be top notch in the MLB prior to signing. The question I was answering is why the experts aren't linking us to top names, so any info you can provide will be helpful. 

It's not because they play in Chicago.

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Jack, I'm not sure what you're not grasping but market size is about potential eye balls. That's what advertisers sell too, and those advertisers pay based on market share - not your perceived white Sox fan total. Therefore, a major athlete signing in Chicago draws a lot of eyeballs and attention.

Advertisers pay more in Chicago than Detroit and Minneapolis. 

What matters more is TV ratings and the Sox are among the bottom 5 in MLB TV ratings year after year. 

The eyeballs might as well not exist if nobody's watching the games. 

I don't even think advertisers blink an eye in Chicago for an endorsement deal for a Sox player. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[SonofaRoache]

15 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Hes not right and it's a laughable claim. 

No one is comparing them to those teams but for you. 

I love when internet people decide the preferences of athletes they do not know.

Agents like bigger markets more than small markets. The sox play in a top 4 market. That means more dollars. Hence why players and agents certainly dont rank Chicago lowly.

If he isnt correct, then you should be able to quickly provide evidence of the several occassions with the  Sox beating out other teams for top MLB FA's. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by SonofaRoache

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Jack, I'm not sure what you're not grasping but market size is about potential eye balls. That's what advertisers sell too, and those advertisers pay based on market share - not your perceived white Sox fan total. Therefore, a major athlete signing in Chicago draws a lot of eyeballs and attention.

Advertisers pay more in Chicago than Detroit and Minneapolis. 

The Sox have some of worst fan activation relative to market size in all of NA sports.  You're not suddenly going to have top 10 local ratings, top 10 attendence and so forth signing a couple big name FAs.  Only sustained winning will bring those casual eye balls back.  Advertisers know that.

 

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

That the Sox aren't going to suddenly operate as one of the lowest payrolls in the league moving forward?

Or that the Negative Nancys conveniently ignore future financial obligations in every negative nancy post? 

I mean, what evidence do you have that the Sox will bump payroll into top 12ish range?  Other than induction from the last time it was, a decade ago.

[mqr]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

The Sox may have whiffed, but they're not in a meaningfully worse position for doing so.  One could argue they're in a better position with a budding superstar in Moncada at 3B and not  owing Manny Macho $270M over the next 9 seasons. And they still have the $250M they offered to Machado to spend.  

The Sox are not suddenly going to operate as one of the lowest payrolls in the league moving forward.  The negative nancys continually disregard that.  They could sign Wheeler, Grandal, Abreu and Encarnacion and still be below average.  

They shouldn't be celebrated for it, but they're 100% in a better position without him. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yep. It's hard to see how they're going to improve much this winter. 

I'll be pleasantly surprised if they land any top or mid tier FA. Just too many teams out there that actually have a current valuation of players. 

Why do you even post this nonsense?  I know, I know "it's how I deal with expectations".  Just a terrible way to exist always assuming the worst.

[BigHurt3515]

38 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yah, I mean 99% of Sox fans are blindly pessimistic.  The Sox have frankly earned it.  But there are a whole bunch of obvious reasons and signs that things are changing.  Feel free to ignore them if you want.  The Sox are going to be very active this offseason.    

I bet I can go back a year and find this same statement from a handful of people on this board and across the internet.

[TheFutureIsNear]

18 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Apparently Jack thinks players would rather play in places like St Pete and KC than Chicago.

This isn't basketball. Players like whoever pay them the most; nothing more, nothing less. Manny didn't like the west coast until the west coast offered him the most money. That's how it works.

Can we just admit that no one actually knows what they are talking about when it comes to players and their personal preference? 

Saying that all players are robots that take the highest penny they are offered is just as dumb as saying no one wants to play for the Sox. There are a lot of factors and not all players have the same priorities.
 

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Why do you even post this nonsense?  I know, I know "it's how I deal with expectations".  Just a terrible way to exist always assuming the worst.

Because I can't stand all of the people who walk around like a unicorn farting rainbows. That's a terrible way to exist as well, being disappointed daily with reality. 

[SonofaRoache]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It's not because they play in Chicago.

No one said it was because they played in Chicago. The argument is mostly because JR has yet to outbid teams for top players and runs two downtrodden organizations. This makes his Chicago teams less desirable, not the city itself. So to overcome this lack of desirability, the Sox will need to overpay. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by SonofaRoache

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I maan, what evidence do you have that the Sox will bump payroll into top 12ish range?  Other than induction from the last time it was, a decade ago.

I did not say that the Sox would bump payroll into the "top 12ish range". I said they could bump payroll to $120Mish and still be below average.  I don't expect the Sox to go into "top 12ish range" next season, but I do expect them to be in the $120M range.  FWIW, the Giants were 12th in 2019 at $138M. I definitely see the Sox in the $150M range by 2022. 

I don't have "evidence".  But the Sox didn't just rebuild for nothing.  You only have to go back to 2015 for the last time they were in the top half of the league in spending, 2013 top 8, 2012 top 5.  I get why everyone is pessimistic, but at least be objective.  

[Chicago White Sox]

54 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You also have to take into account the fact that the Sox are one of the least desirable places to play from a players perspective in baseball. Players would rather play almost anywhere else. The Sox are right there with Detroit, Cleveland and Cincinnati on the "worst places to play in MLB" list.  I'm sure that people would rather play for the Rays or Marlins because at least it's Florida. 

This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen in my life.

[SonofaRoache]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why do you even post this nonsense?  I know, I know "it's how I deal with expectations".  Just a terrible way to exist always assuming the worst.

At this point it is not assuming the worst. Rick Hahn's FA signings tell a terrifying tale. He has another chance to change this narrative this year, so we shall see. 

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I did not say that the Sox would bump payroll into the "top 12ish range". I said they could bump payroll to $120Mish and still be below average.  I don't expect the Sox to go into "top 12ish range" next season, but I do expect them to be in the $120M range.  FWIW, the Giants were 12th in 2019 at $138M. I definitely see the Sox in the $150M range by 2022. 

I don't have "evidence".  But the Sox didn't just rebuild for nothing.  You only have to go back to 2015 for the last time they were in the top half of the league in spending, 2013 top 8, 2012 top 5.  I get why everyone is pessimistic, but at least be objective.  

That's fair.  I think the Sox will be average pay roll wise, which won't cut it if all their youngsters pan out as they hope.  They will need to wade into the top 1/3.

[mqr]

I would just like to reiterate that MLB endorsements amount to jack squat. Any difference in endorsements can be made up easily. Like a couple hundred thousand dollars a year easily.

Edited November 5, 2019 by mqr

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I bet I can go back a year and find this same statement from a handful of people on this board and across the internet.

And what exactly does that prove?  Most objective Sox fans realized that MM and BH would be great. but that it was at least at year early.  

[SonofaRoache]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I did not say that the Sox would bump payroll into the "top 12ish range". I said they could bump payroll to $120Mish and still be below average.  I don't expect the Sox to go into "top 12ish range" next season, but I do expect them to be in the $120M range.  FWIW, the Giants were 12th in 2019 at $138M. I definitely see the Sox in the $150M range by 2022. 

I don't have "evidence".  But the Sox didn't just rebuild for nothing.  You only have to go back to 2015 for the last time they were in the top half of the league in spending, 2013 top 8, 2012 top 5.  I get why everyone is pessimistic, but at least be objective.  

This is fair. The Sox will spend money, it just needs to start being big contracts for elite talent. No more spread the contracts amongst marginal players to avoid risk. 

[Chicago White Sox]

29 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That too. The Sox have a sorted recent history of players who have had productive careers signing here and their careers just die. 

OMG...please just stop!

[Orlando]

2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

This is fair. The Sox will spend money, it just needs to start being big contracts for elite talent. No more spread the contracts amongst marginal players to avoid risk. 

Worked out pretty well for the twins last year