1 minute ago, shipps said:

I am stifled at why people believe that Collins is some sort of offensive juggernaut in the making. His track record doesn't imply that likely to be the case. People fall in love with the OPS I guess. 

I agree. Just go with Edwin. Collins should have gotten more of a chance last year but oh well. 

1 minute ago, shipps said:

I am stifled at why people believe that Collins is some sort of offensive juggernaut in the making. His track record doesn't imply that likely to be the case. People fall in love with the OPS I guess. 

There just aren't a lot of power hitting high OBP catchers.  And he's LH.  

He can do a lot of things the Sox need.

3 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

And if Grandal gets hurt?  That $5.6M isn't going to break the Sox budget.  It's nice to have depth for once so we don't have to watch players that have no business in the major leagues filling in.

Having said that, if they can get good value in return for McCann (or Collins for that matter) go ahead and trade.  But it would be nice having all three around this season. 

If Grandal gets hurt, the Sox are screwed in 2020 anyway.

8 minutes ago, shipps said:

I am stifled at why people believe that Collins is some sort of offensive juggernaut in the making. His track record doesn't imply that likely to be the case. People fall in love with the OPS I guess. 

What is weird is people actually think McCann has a decent shot of having a .356 BABIP again. I think making Collins the back up will give him enough playing time to see what they have. It's time. If he's no good, back up catchers are a dime a dozen. 

I have no idea with him. I don't think his first stint would be a fair way to gauge him, and I don't think his success later is necessarily an indication of what is to come. He hits homers. He walks. He strikes out. Whether he will be able to do enough of the first 2 things to offset what he isn't very good at needs to be determined, and the Sox will have a spot for him.

His swing does remind me of Josh Hamilton, although he isn't the hitter Hamilton was, and when Hamilton was struggling, it looked like an 8 year old could get him out.

Edited December 24, 20196 yr by Dick Allen

If Collins were a very good defensive catcher, he would be fine, as the back up, even if his bat is unproven. However, it just doesn't make sense to risk making him the primary catcher, if Grandal gets hurt. Perhaps if the Sox had another catcher in the system who was a very good defender, but they don't. Remember, catching is a defense first position, especially with 4 very young starters, out 6.

Edited December 24, 20196 yr by Lillian

Just now, Lillian said:

If Collins were a very good defensive catcher, he would be fine, as the back up, even if his bat is unproven. However, it just make sense to risk making him the primary catcher, if Grandal gets hurt. Perhaps if the Sox had another catcher in the system who was a very good defender, but they don't.

So what do we do in 2021?  

 

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

What is weird is people actually think McCann has a decent shot of having a .356 BABIP again. I think making Collins the back up will give him enough playing time to see what they have. It's time. If he's no good, back up catchers are a dime a dozen. 

If we're talking about selling high on McCann and getting back something useful, then by all means trade him. 

But if we're talking about trading him just to get rid of his $5.4M salary, or just to clear the way for Collins, then that would be a mistake. 

2 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

 

Good,  I  want both! ?

1 minute ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

If we're talking about selling high on McCann and getting back something useful, then by all means trade him. 

But if we're talking about trading him just to get rid of his $5.4M salary, or just to clear the way for Collins, then that would be a mistake. 

I do think he could be a nice addition to a package, but spending that $5.6 million elsewahere like on a reliever makes a lot more sense than on a back up catcher when one of you better prospects is waiting there. BTW, Steamer projects Collins with a better WAR than McCann in less than half the plate appearances. But virtually the same.

4 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

So what do we do in 2021?  

Hopefully, by 2021 the Sox will have a better idea whether, or not, Collins is ready. At this point, they almost certainly do not know that. It also won't hurt to have him be mentored by both Grandal and McCann.

2 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Hopefully, by 2021 the Sox will have a better idea whether, or not, Collins is ready. At this point, they almost certainly do not know that. It also won't hurt to have him be mentored by both Grandal and McCann.

How would they if he doesn't play?

Back in 1981 the White Sox signed Jim Essian to a  4  year contract to be their catcher. Then they got Carlton Fisk. They kept Essian around for a year, and even though Fisk was old then and had some injuries, traded Essian because he was a luxury they didn't need. They got Wimpy back for him and a couple others. The Sox should do something similar here. It's the back up catcher. On the list of important roles to fill, it's really near the bottom because you can find similar guys everywhere.

Edited December 24, 20196 yr by Dick Allen

1 minute ago, Lillian said:

Hopefully, by 2021 the Sox will have a better idea whether, or not, Collins is ready. At this point, they almost certainly do not know that. It also won't hurt to have him be mentored by both Grandal and McCann.

Right. And if Collins looks bad, they can always try to re-sign McCann.

17 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Uhhhhh we don't even know what you do lol

See my post 10-15 posts before yours. I think I figured it out. Everything matches up.

Edited December 24, 20196 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

2 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Hopefully, by 2021 the Sox will have a better idea whether, or not, Collins is ready. At this point, they almost certainly do not know that. It also won't hurt to have him be mentored by both Grandal and McCann.

We have no idea what he is right now at the plate. So how?

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

See my post a few above yours. I think I figured it out. Everything matches up.

I've responded to a few people privately. You can go view my public posts to see where I work. 

6 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

Good,  I  want both! ?

He just replied to two different people saying both won’t happen. It will be one or the other

Id prefer Edwin over Castellanos as it'll be less money and years and hopefully we won't have another Semien situation when Vaughn is ready.

DH - Encarnacion
C - Grandal#
1B - Abreu
2B - Madrigal
SS - Anderson
3B - Moncada#
LF - Jimenez
CF - Robert
RF - Mazara*

sign me up for that

Ideally move McCann(++) for a reliever or someone like Nimmo. McCann has 1 year left before he is a FA so treating him as Gio's personal catcher does the sox no good long term where someone like Collins is available; it could be weighted differently if Giolito signed a long term deal but even then its suspect; move him; there are plenty of teams that could use him.

4 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

Right. And if Collins looks bad, they can always try to re-sign McCann.

If McCann was anything but awful, why would he sign to be a back up? Cash in on his 2019. 

Edited December 24, 20196 yr by Dick Allen

 

1 minute ago, Orlando said:

 

 

21 minutes ago, CBJ03 said:

I've responded to a few people privately. You can go view my public posts to see where I work. 

Oh yea I remember those posts . The music man. Damn I thought i did a great job of sleuthing but was wondering why a prominent Dr. would be posting here. The initials, the 03 matching up with when he became a member of the Sox medical staff . Happy Holidays from one music man to another .

Oh and I realize you are responsible for the whole broadcast not just the music. I had to look at the old game thread where you were talking to Heads and I joined in. That's why I remember it.

 

Edited December 24, 20196 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

I understand the concern about finding sufficient playing time for Collins. It's a valid point, because they will need to get him at least enough playing time to better evaluate him, going forward. It will be a challenge, unless either Grandal or McCann gets injured. However, there ought to be a way to work him into the mix, if they try. I think his catching is more important than his hitting, as he will not have a position unless he can catch, with Vaughn and Abreu sharing first base and DH, perhaps as early as 2021. With the offense that the Sox are assembling, there may be some games, in which he could get some playing time, when the Sox blow out the opposition. 

Edited December 24, 20196 yr by Lillian

Here was the other reply for clarification