Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

But why?  You already have Leury.  He's the backup CF.  He's a 4th OF that can also play SS.  They are good there unless TA gets hurt for an extended time.

This is ultimately the point being made. Mazara doesn't make sense as a 4th OF. They added him to at least play the majority of the time in Right

Just now, tray said:

Mazara could worse in RF than Castellanos. He is a pretty big dude that can pack on some bulk as he ages.

Hes not good but he's better there than Castellanos

1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

That's not really fair though.  He's only played RF for 2 years and improved in 2019.  Comerica is also not really good to play in if you don't have range, which he doesn't.

He was moved from 3rd where he was historically bad to RF where hes been historically bad. He's 29 years old and defense ages faster than offense. 

If you're signing Castellanos you need to accept that hes one of the worst defenders in baseball. If you're banking on him improving at 30 you're going to be disappointed moreso than not.

Just now, mqr said:

This is ultimately the point being made. Mazara doesn't make sense as a 4th OF. They added him to at least play the majority of the time in Right

He makes a lot of sense IMO if you're planning on contending.  He covers you when Eloy gets hurt, and you know Eloy will get hurt at some point.

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He was moved from 3rd where he was historically bad to RF where hes been historically bad. He's 29 years old and defense ages faster than offense. 

If you're signing Castellanos you need to accept that hes one of the worst defenders in baseball. If you're banking on him improving at 30 you're going to be disappointed moreso than not.

He's going to be 28 fyi

1 minute ago, mqr said:

He's going to be 28 fyi

So hes got about 6 months before his defensive decline begins. The good thing for him is he's already at the bottom so how much worse can it get?

 Mazara would only be a platoon in RF whether or not the Sox sign Castellanos. Look at his splits.

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He was moved from 3rd where he was historically bad to RF where hes been historically bad. He's 29 years old and defense ages faster than offense. 

If you're signing Castellanos you need to accept that hes one of the worst defenders in baseball. If you're banking on him improving at 30 you're going to be disappointed moreso than not.

He's 27*, and with 2 years of development in RF. 

There are 2 types of bad OF's.  Nick Castellanos types with lack of range but can still catch.  He would benefit from the smaller dimensions and Luis in CF.

Then there are Clint Fraziers and Santanas who can't even catch baseballs. 

1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

He's 27*, and with 2 years of development in RF. 

There are 2 types of bad OF's.  Nick Castellanos types with lack of range but can still catch.  He would benefit from the smaller dimensions and Luis in CF.

Then there are Clint Fraziers and Santanas who can't even catch baseballs. 

Castellanos is every bit as bad as anyone who has ever played MLB outfield.

Maybe, just maybe, you could argue han ram in left field or man ram in left field in boston. Maybe. Carlos lee in his milwaukee days too.

Edited December 23, 20196 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

He's 27*, and with 2 years of development in RF. 

There are 2 types of bad OF's.  Nick Castellanos types with lack of range but can still catch.  He would benefit from the smaller dimensions and Luis in CF.

Then there are Clint Fraziers and Santanas who can't even catch baseballs. 

Jesus, I'm having flashbacks of all the routine fly balls Alex Rios dropped in RF for the Sox lol

edit: granted, it may only be a few but even one dropped routine fly ball hit right at you is too many if you're an MLB OF.

Edited December 23, 20196 yr by soxfan2014

Just now, BackDoorBreach said:

He's 27*, and with 2 years of development in RF. 

There are 2 types of bad OF's.  Nick Castellanos types with lack of range but can still catch.  He would benefit from the smaller dimensions and Luis in CF.

Then there are Clint Fraziers and Santanas who can't even catch baseballs. 

And then there are also players who are better than Castellanos but the Sox will have no chance to sign like Betts and Springer.

Spend the money on targets that are attainable.  Don’t hold onto money for targets that you won’t be able to sign.

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Castellanos is every bit as bad as anyone who has ever played MLB outfield.

Ray, You are getting ridiculous on this.

Just now, tray said:

Ray, You are getting ridiculous on this.

Based on what? This is reality. Hes been the worst defensive player in baseball since he entered the league.

I think we are all forgetting how the team likes to have flexibility with the lineup. Castellanos brings that, he can serve as your typical full time DH play or when Ricky gets the hair to play both catchers at the same time you can move him to the OF without having Leury or Engle having to play that much. You wouldn’t have a gaping hole in your lineup with a bench player day in and day out

He would definitely make more sense if they didn't stupidly sign Abreu to that extension. 

Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

And then there are also players who are better than Castellanos but the Sox will have no chance to sign like Betts and Springer.

Spend the money on targets that are attainable.  Don’t hold onto money for targets that you won’t be able to sign.

I've made this point as well.  Dude is out there now.  Betts is unobtainable, Springer is 30+ and will either have a shit ton of suitors or get extended, then you have Joc who is a platoon bat.  Get the guy now for just money.

I'll edit and say Matt Kemp may be worse. 

The other players that grade out with Nick:

Choo - DH

JD - Dh

Trumbo - DH

Khris Davis - DH

No one would be arguing for the above to play RF for the next 6 years. The scary thing is those guys were towards the older years of their careers (sans Davis). Castellanos is young. Imagine how bad its gonna get 

Edited December 23, 20196 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

19 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Because then you deal from strength when it's time to consolidate or roster balance.  Also 26 man rosters now.   Corner players and DHs got a little more valuable.

If Collins and Vaughn were in the lower minors, I might be able to get onboard with that idea. But for Collins, at least, that time is now. For Vaughn, that time COULD be as early as September, but very likely 2021 barring an unexpected setback.

And while Castellanos and Abreu are both decent hitters, their contracts are at-best “break even” in the $15-20M range, so you can’t really expect to move one of them for anything much. And neither are good enough to warrant this type of shuffling and the inefficiency that comes with it. As good a contact hitter as Castellanos can be, his on base skills are fairly mediocre, and he’s never even hit 30 homers in an era where KETEL MARTE just hit 30 homers. That’s not really all that much to make up for being a base clogger and a butcher in the field. His “fantastic platform year” was worth 2.8 fWAR, and steamer project 1.6 for 2020. Even if you take the over on that, how much better is that, really, than what Collins would put up? A win? Maybe a touch more on the high end. But then what if Collins breaks out? Now he’s a similar offensive contributor who can also catch. You’re throwing that chance away for a marginal upgrade at a cost of probably $15-20M over the next several years. 

Its just a really inefficient use of resources for a team that has given itself a very narrow path to success with its limited budget.

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Based on what? This is reality. Hes been the worst defensive player in baseball since he entered the league.

Based on what metric?

5 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I've made this point as well.  Dude is out there now.  Betts is unobtainable, Springer is 30+ and will either have a shit ton of suitors or get extended, then you have Joc who is a platoon bat.  Get the guy now for just money.

Agreed.  Betts is a pipe dream.  Springer is better and will have many more suitors but he will also be 31 next offseason so he’s not ideal either.

Sign good young players when you have a shot at them.

Edited December 23, 20196 yr by Moan4Yoan

 

2 minutes ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

I think we are all forgetting how the team likes to have flexibility with the lineup. Castellanos brings that, he can serve as your typical full time DH play or when Ricky gets the hair to play both catchers at the same time you can move him to the OF without having Leury or Engle having to play that much. You wouldn’t have a gaping hole in your lineup with a bench player day in and day out

 

Can he still play 3B too? That's more flexibility as well. I'm all for signing Castellanos. This lineup looks so much more formidable with him included.

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He was moved from 3rd where he was historically bad to RF where hes been historically bad. He's 29 years old and defense ages faster than offense. 

If you're signing Castellanos you need to accept that hes one of the worst defenders in baseball. If you're banking on him improving at 30 you're going to be disappointed moreso than not.

He's 27. His birthday is in March.

Somehow, 3 different ages have been cited for Castellanos in this thread.

2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I've made this point as well.  Dude is out there now.  Betts is unobtainable, Springer is 30+ and will either have a shit ton of suitors or get extended, then you have Joc who is a platoon bat.  Get the guy now for just money.

Castellanos makes the most sense as a DH, but I'm leery of going three or four years to such a poor defensive player. 

1 minute ago, Quin said:

He's 27. His birthday is in March.

Somehow, 3 different ages have been cited for Castellanos in this thread.

He was 30 just 5 minutes ago

18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I really don’t buy this rumor.  I still think EE will be our big bat addition plus someone who can start at 2B.

One can hope