10 minutes ago, scotty22hotty said:

you cant throw out claims in a false virtue signal on a baseball message board and just assume people will accept your claims of schilling trying to incite violence. I on the other hand can call you brainwashed because I have proof based on the fact you think having American first opinions makes someone morally inferior to someone else.

 

why do you care how rhode island spends its money?

 

well deserved

This is why Filibuster doesn’t exist anymore.  The idea that roughly 40-45% of the US only cares about putting America first at all times while the slim majority want America to be last or to fall apart...it’s simply impossible to discuss in those terms, from that frame of reference.  Hence, no point in discussing.

That said, we now live in a time and place where every single aspect of our lives is being connected or correlated, rightly or wrongly, with politics.  And nobody, let alone HoF voters, is ever going to be accused of ever being 100% objective, whatever that even means today.

 

My way-too-early meaningless 2021ballot:

Schilling, Vizquel, Bonds, Clemens, Rolen, Kent, Helton, Hudson, Buehrle, Hunter 

Dropping Manny and Andruw

Hudson, Buehrle and Hunter, I would want them to get at least 5%

Frank Thomas got 83% of the vote. There is no way in hell that Derek Jeter should get a larger percentage of the ballot than Frank Thomas. 

Frank Thomas>>>>>>Jeter as a hitter. Also, Jeter was a shitty shortstop so anyone that wants to bring defense into it can eat a bag of dicks. 

Every gold glove jeter won was a massive joke because he had the worst range out of any SS in baseball after like 1998. It's hard to make an error if most balls hit your way end up as hits. Tim Anderson is a better SS than Jeter ever was. 

Derek Jeter getting as large of a percentage of the vote as he did is insulting to my Intelligence as a baseball fan. 

If they had defensive metrics for the entirety of Jeter's career his WAR would probably be around Harold Baines.

His reputation as a player was entirely undeserved and was a product of the Jankee hype machine. If Jeter played his career in Fucking Dallas or something and had the same numbers he'd be a borderline case. We have entered an age where there are no longer any magic numbers for entry into the HOF. 

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by Jack Parkman

11 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Frank Thomas got 83% of the vote. There is no way in hell that Derek Jeter should get a larger percentage of the ballot than Frank Thomas. 

Frank Thomas>>>>>>Jeter as a hitter. Also, Jeter was a shitty shortstop so anyone that wants to bring defense into it can eat a bag of dicks. 

Every gold glove jeter won was a massive joke because he had the worst range out of any SS in baseball after like 1998. It's hard to make an error if most balls hit your way end up as hits. Tim Anderson is a better SS than Jeter ever was. 

Derek Jeter getting as large of a percentage of the vote as he did is insulting to my Intelligence as a baseball fan. 

If they had defensive metrics for the entirety of Jeter's career his WAR would probably be around Harold Baines.

His reputation as a player was entirely undeserved and was a product of the Jankee hype machine. If Jeter played his career in Fucking Dallas or something and had the same numbers he'd be a borderline case. We have entered an age where there are no longer any magic numbers for entry into the HOF. 

Well his hit total still gets him in easily but yeah if he played anywhere else this were probably talking closer to 90%. But yeah full agreement with you.

13 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Well his hit total still gets him in easily but yeah if he played anywhere else this were probably talking closer to 90%. But yeah full agreement with you.

Jeter's induction should be nearly as controversial as Baines, IMO. 

I thought we have passed the point of magic numbers for induction.

 

Player A: .289/.356/.465 119 wRC+

Player B: .310/.377/.440 119 wRC+

 

Player A is Baines, Player B is Jeter. 

 

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by Jack Parkman

Smoking hot takes!

2 hours ago, flavum said:

Smoking hot takes!

? ? ? 

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Jeter's induction should be nearly as controversial as Baines, IMO. 

I thought we have passed the point of magic numbers for induction.

 

Player A: .289/.356/.465 119 wRC+

Player B: .310/.377/.440 119 wRC+

 

Player A is Baines, Player B is Jeter. 

 

Jack, I am not a huge fan of either player but you are comparing a player who got more at bats as a DH than in RF to a SS with 5 Gold Gloves?  You can even argue Jeter’s defense was overrated if you want but Baines is about that last player you should be using to prove your point.

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by Moan4Yoan

50 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Jack, I am not a huge fan of either player but you are comparing a player who got more at bats as a DH than in RF to a SS with 5 Gold Gloves?  You can even argue Jeter’s defense was overrated if you want but Baines is about that last player you should be using to prove your point.

What is the comp between Baines and Edgar Martinez?

1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Jack, I am not a huge fan of either player but you are comparing a player who got more at bats as a DH than in RF to a SS with 5 Gold Gloves?  You can even argue Jeter’s defense was overrated if you want but Baines is about that last player you should be using to prove your point.

I think his gold gloves are illegitimate. He was a bad shortstop. He had no range whatsoever. He had a significantly negative defensive WAR most years. 

Jeter won GGs because he was a Jankee hype machine golden boy. He deserves exactly zero gold gloves. 

Alex Rodriguez was a MUCH better SS than Jeter defensively when they made that trade. Jeter probably had bottom 5 range of any SS in baseball. He made routine plays look spectacular because his range was so awful. 

Jeter was to the SS position what Frank Thomas was to 1B. (A bit of hyperbole, but you get the picture) 

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by Jack Parkman

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think his gold gloves are illegitimate. He was a bad shortstop. He had no range whatsoever. He had a significant negative defensive WAR most years. 

And the player you compared Jeter to?  Go check out his defensive WAR.

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

And the player you compared Jeter to?  Go check out his defensive WAR.

He's a damn DH. Jeter actually hurt his team by playing defense. At least at DH you're not hurting your team. 

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think his gold gloves are illegitimate. He was a bad shortstop. He had no range whatsoever. He had a significantly negative defensive WAR most years. 

Jeter won GGs because he was a Jankee hype machine golden boy. He deserves exactly zero gold gloves. 

Alex Rodriguez was a MUCH better SS than Jeter defensively when they made that trade. Jeter probably had bottom 5 range of any SS in baseball. He made routine plays look spectacular because his range was so awful. 

Paul Konerko makes the HOF if he is a Yankee, imo. The Yankee bias is crazy

3 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Paul Konerko makes the HOF if he is a Yankee, imo. The Yankee bias is crazy

Exactamundo. Instead, Konerko is off after one ballot and Jeter is near unanimous because Jankees. 

I'm not even saying that Jeter isn't a HOF, because he is. He was a great offensive SS. I'm saying the near unanimous vote is ludicrous. Same with Rivera. 

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by Jack Parkman

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

He's a damn DH. Jeter actually hurt his team by playing defense. At least at DH you're not hurting your team. 

He was also a right fielder for 7 seasons, hurting his teams on defense.

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by Moan4Yoan

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

He was also a right fielder for 7 seasons, hurting his teams on defense.

I thought he was actually a good RF until he messed up his knee? Idk, I wasn't born yet/a toddler when he was playing RF. 

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by Jack Parkman

Jeter is a hall of famer, no doubt, but he was a shitty SS.  Every Gold Glove should have been a Silver Slugger instead.  End of story.  But it is what it is.  Everyone knew he would get in with damn near 100%, so who cares? 

4 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

He was also a right fielder for 7 seasons, hurting his teams on defense.

He was a very good right fielder until the knee issues became too severe.

5 hours ago, ron883 said:

Paul Konerko makes the HOF if he is a Yankee, imo. The Yankee bias is crazy

Yes...Yankee bias is a real thing.

7 hours ago, ron883 said:

Paul Konerko makes the HOF if he is a Yankee, imo. The Yankee bias is crazy

Like how Tino Martinez has a higher WAR than Konerko, played 1b for the Yankees, picked up 4 rings, and did not get in.

21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Like how Tino Martinez has a higher WAR than Konerko, played 1b for the Yankees, picked up 4 rings, and did not get in.

Tino doesn't have 1/10th the class that Paulie has. Paulie also rocked a wRC+ of 118 while Tino had a wRC+ of 110. Paulie was a better hitter.

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by ron883

20 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

The thing about Schilling is this. 

Racism is not a political opinion. Sending out memes and tropes that disenfranchises and advocate violence against the media, muslims, and the LGBTQ community is not a political opinion. Doing that sort of behavior is morally wrong and against what freedom in America stands for. 

Yes, Schilling has the right to express his opinion, but racism and attacking various minorities is wrong, morally wrong. 

And there is a morals clause to getting into the Hall of Fame. Schilling should never get in. 

While I agree with you on principle, as long as Cap Anson and Ty Cobb, and Ken Landis(IIRC)  remain enshrined, that kind of goes out the window. 

9 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Exactamundo. Instead, Konerko is off after one ballot and Jeter is near unanimous because Jankees. 

I'm not even saying that Jeter isn't a HOF, because he is. He was a great offensive SS. I'm saying the near unanimous vote is ludicrous. Same with Rivera. 

You guys joking? Konerko wouldn't be a HOF'er if he was a Yankee; that's nuts.

If you guys want to go to bat for someone who is ABSOLUTELY deserving, who will likely be overlooked, it's Buehrle. I've been pretty vocal that for a career, I use bWAR over fWAR for pitchers - for season to season, and projections I'd use fWAR. Buehrle falls right around 60-65th all-time, which is borderline and plenty haven't gotten in from that tier BUT, accomplishments really do matter. Buehrle was the best fielding pitcher of his generation, he threw a nono and a perfect game, had a dominant post-season run, and was the most durable pitcher in the modern era. He lead the league in wins and IP for a decade.

Buehrle is a unique case, but imo he's a HOF'er based on all the intangibles and achievements. 

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You guys joking? Konerko wouldn't be a HOF'er if he was a Yankee; that's nuts.

If you guys want to go to bat for someone who is ABSOLUTELY deserving, who will likely be overlooked, it's Buehrle. I've been pretty vocal that for a career, I use bWAR over fWAR for pitchers - for season to season, and projections I'd use fWAR. Buehrle falls right around 60-65th all-time, which is borderline and plenty haven't gotten in from that tier BUT, accomplishments really do matter. Buehrle was the best fielding pitcher of his generation, he threw a nono and a perfect game, had a dominant post-season run, and was the most durable pitcher in the modern era. He lead the league in wins and IP for a decade.

Buehrle is a unique case, but imo he's a HOF'er based on all the intangibles and achievements. 

Definitely think Buehrle has a better case than Paulie. If the Hall is about the era you played in, then you’ll see pitching isn’t represented that much for guys that made their debut right around the height of the steroid era (98-03). By the time Sabathia gets on the ballot, I think he’ll be considered a no-brainer to vote for. I also would want to look at Tim Hudson more closely, and re-evaluate Roy Oswalt, Johan Santana, and maybe Cliff Lee.

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

Tino doesn't have 1/10th the class that Paulie has. Paulie also rocked a wRC+ of 118 while Tino had a wRC+ of 110. Paulie was a better hitter.

If class mattered, a lot of guys shouldn’t be in the Hall of Fame.