7 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

What would you do if you were in that situation? If you’re Dallas Keuchel, a pitcher who does not directly participate in any way in the sign stealing but is aware that it happens, what would you do?

Are you going to expose your entire team midseason? After the season? Get your co-workers in trouble, some of them fired, destroy your relationship with your employer? All for something that may or may not help, that you know some form of is going on other places too? At the very least you’re guaranteeing your days in Houston are over. Maybe that means a trade you can’t control. Maybe you make long term enemies in the game. Maybe you take your teammates down with you. Maybe you torpedo you’re chance to win . And if you are only aware of it peripherally, as I imagine the pitchers probably only were it may very well have seemed like more of a grey area than we now know that it was.

Im not condoning what was done at all, but I absolutely believe that lots of players weren’t okay with it but didn’t feel comfortable with the consequences of blowing a whistle in a environment where they have to continue to work. When your bosses authorize something, there’s a real cost to opposing it. It’s not really fair to put that burden on the players, who often have families to think about. Unfortunately, that complications means that we can’t reliably identify and this cannot punish the players that were active participants. 

Fantastic post.

7 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Apparently only a Mike Fiers quality human being does that, but for a veteran leader and cy young award winner on a billion dollar franchise, here's some possibles. 

1. Complain to your manager.
2. Make a public statement in front of your teammates.
3. Organize several of your teammmates to support you as a leader on your roster and tell management that it stops.
4. Complain to your general manager once the manager does nothing. 
5. Go over the general manager's head to ownership. Make it so that Crane's "I knew nothing" statement yesterday no longer holds up.
6. Complain to your union representatives. 
7. Take matters into your own hands. If the wimp of a manager won't do actual damage to the screen do it yourself. 

They're the ones tainting you. Are you a leader or aren't you?

Mike Fiers looked the other way while it was happening no?  His accusations came out after he left the organization?

Cora just was fired

7 minutes ago, mqr said:

Cora just was fired

https://mobile.twitter.com/RedSox/status/1217241351517065216

41 minutes ago, bmags said:

This is ugly. Do you really want to take the side that Keuchel not doing anything was a positive good? He didn’t have to publicly snitch to have handled it.

Do you know for fact he didn't do anything? We don't know that any of their players spoke up to management about it or not.

Edited January 15, 20206 yr by soxfan2014

Imagine the best penalty for a team full of cheaters if MLB had any balls. NO POSTSEASON. 

6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I'm open to other suggestions. If you want to say that the White Sox should suspend him for a month I'm listening.

The White Sox should suspend Keuchel because his teammates with another team cheated while he was there?  Like seriously man, you are freaking nuts.

6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

But I also have every right to judge the person based on whether or not they did the right thing in that situation.

You have no fucking clue what he did and didn’t do yet you have already served as judge, jury, & executioner.

6 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Honestly I think you should just say that you don't accept an apology or statement from him because he is involved in a cheating scandal(whether peripherally or intimately) and leave it at that.   There will never be a punishment levied that will satisfy you, you weren't satisfied with Melkys apology or any other players and you don't like cheating or gaming the system.   And that's fine. but trying to twist it that everyone accepts and approves of Keuchels supposed cheating is not getting anywhere.   Nobody here approves of cheating and nobody wants the Sox to cheat, signing Keuchel and being excited for the signing doesn't mean that we approve.

Amazing post.

Well speaking of not doing anything, what about the umpires for the last 3 years?  I mean think about it, its generally the same crew working the 3 or 4 game series. So at Houston the home plate umpire never heard the Bam noise with the bat right before each pitch Or the 3rd base coach? I'm sure after a while you could figure out what was going on. And I'm sure some crews even talked about it in there own locker rooms.  Again I'm talking about 3 seasons! You might say this is outside the grounds of what they govern on a day to day basis. But I  ask why?  They can eject anyone caught cheating with a corked bat, too much pine tar, sandpaper, scuffed balls, etc.  Etc. I  know they hear what's going on in the dugout. They're quick to question anyone being critical of one of their calls from there. Right? 

Edited January 16, 20206 yr by smellysox

1 hour ago, bmags said:

This is ugly. Do you really want to take the side that Keuchel not doing anything was a positive good? He didn’t have to publicly snitch to have handled it.

No one knows what Keuchel did or didn’t do outside of not snitching out his teammates.  I’m not going to hold that against him given the ramifications it could of had against him.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/if-pete-rose-is-out-of-baseball-forever-then-so-should-alex-cora-230843168.html

Rose/Shoeless Joe should be reinstated or Alex Cora should get a lifetime ban

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2020/01/it-seems-trevor-bauer-was-right-about-the-houston-astros-all-along-and-now-hes-enjoying-their-dumpster-fire.html

Two great Bauer videos....and you can forget about Colin McHugh/McCullers if we are ever going to target Bauer.

12 hours ago, smellysox said:

Well speaking of not doing anything, what about the umpires for the last 3 years?  I mean think about it, its generally the same crew working the 3 or 4 game series. So at Houston the home plate umpire never heard the Bam noise with the bat right before each pitch Or the 3rd base coach? I'm sure after a while you could figure out what was going on. I'm sure some crews talk about it in there own locker room.  You might say this is outside the grounds of what they govern on a day to day basis. But I  ask why?  They can eject anyone caught cheating with a corked bat, too much pine tar, sandpaper, scuffed balls, etc.  Etc. I  know they hear what's going on in the dugout. They're quick to question anyone being critical of a call from there. Right? 

My thought exactly.  The umpires must have heard the drum banging.  Hear no evil?  MLB should at least say something to condemn the umps.

13 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You have no fucking clue what he did and didn’t do yet you have already served as judge, jury, & executioner.

True, the burden of proof is on the prosecutor.  It’s likely Keuchel knew about the sign stealing but you would have to question his teammates as witnesses.  And Keuchel was never busted by an umpire using foreign substances during a game as far as I know so this would be even more difficult to prove.

Edited January 15, 20206 yr by Moan4Yoan

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/cc-sabathia-yankees-astros-world-series-vacate-011249894.html

Sabathia wants 2017-18 WS titles to be vacated...

 

Btw, maybe Balta can convince Kate Upton to leave Justin Verlander while he’s on this crusade...?

I mean, everyone categorically supported Jose Quintana and he had a PEDs violation in the Mets or Yankees’ minor league system.

Is 2005 tainted partially by Ozuna?  

Should Frank Thomas be called out for not quitting the team when Jose Canseco was signed to replace him in 2001?

Brett Myers?  Wilfredo Cordero?  D’Angelo Jimenez?  Belle?   We’ve tolerated a lot as Sox fans...

Edited January 15, 20206 yr by caulfield12

Keuchel was in the same position as Buck Weaver was with the 1919 Black Sox. Weaver knew about the fix, but took no money, and played a honest Series. Yet, he was put in with the rest and banned for life. It was a ban he didn't deserve. 

8 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/if-pete-rose-is-out-of-baseball-forever-then-so-should-alex-cora-230843168.html

Rose/Shoeless Joe should be reinstated or Alex Cora should get a lifetime ban

I don’t think Manfred will put a lifetime ban on Cora. That would remove any leverage he has on Cora to keep his mouth shut. The commissioner’s office doesn’t want this to blow up across the whole sport. 

13 hours ago, pcq said:

Imagine the best penalty for a team full of cheaters if MLB had any balls. NO POSTSEASON. 

That would never work. It would impact the entire season far too much. 

Joe Espada is expected to take over as manager.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1217460391195836417

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/if-pete-rose-is-out-of-baseball-forever-then-so-should-alex-cora-230843168.html

Rose/Shoeless Joe should be reinstated

No

1 hour ago, oldsox said:

My thought exactly.  The umpires must have heard the drum banging.  Hear no evil?  MLB should at least say something to condemn the umps.

How is an umpire supposed to differentiate that banging from any other dipshit banging something in the stands

Just now, mqr said:

How is an umpire supposed to differentiate that banging from any other dipshit banging something in the stands

It was right before the pitch, specifically only change ups, in this video and it was the same noise each time — two loud bangs.  Danny Farquhar was smart enough to figure it out.

 

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

It was right before the pitch, specifically only change ups, in this video and it was the same noise each time — two loud bangs.  Danny Farquhar was smart enough to figure it out.

 

Danny Farquhar also knew exactly what he was throwing. The ump doesn’t. Farquhar, as far was we know, is also the only person who reacted to it in game. 

33 minutes ago, mqr said:

Danny Farquhar also knew exactly what he was throwing. The ump doesn’t. Farquhar, as far was we know, is also the only person who reacted to it in game. 

You don’t think umpires can discern between what pitches are being thrown without seeing the signs?

Edited January 15, 20206 yr by Moan4Yoan