47 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

But Madrigal IS a high ceiling guy.  He’s not a floor guy.  
 

his floor is a guy with no power who can’t find holes and is completely useless.  
 

His ceiling is a guy who can control the strike zone and barrel historically better than almost anybody ever.  It’s weird. 

His defense alone puts him on a major league roster for the next decade. 

19 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

It's funny because I was actually thinking the same earlier and so I looked. Polanco had many years with an OPS over .750. He won a few GG's too. This is a good comparison and we should all be thrilled if Madrigal ends up with PP's career.

Thirded. When I think of Madrigal, Polanco is the first guy that comes to mind......as his ceiling. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/polanpl01.shtml

Edited August 3, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

His defense alone puts him on a major league roster for the next decade. 

Jayson Nix comes to mind, one of the better infielders I'd ever seen at the time but mediocre hitter, but he managed to squeak out a career of about 8 years (though I think Madrigal projects a lot higher than Nix as a hitter)

Edited August 3, 20205 yr by lostfan

Just now, lostfan said:

Jayson Nix comes to mind, one of the better infielders I'd ever seen at the time but mediocre hitter, but he managed to squeak out a career of about 8 years

Even the bust Gordon Beckham is still around. 

Madrigal  is more valuable to a team that doesn't need power from its second basemen. That's the Sox right now.

We are loaded with power up and down the line-up. 

Mazara is another guy that is going to hit 20+ bombs every year.

27 minutes ago, tray said:

Madrigal  is more valuable to a team that doesn't need power from its second basemen. That's the Sox right now.

We are loaded with power up and down the line-up. 

Mazara is another guy that is going to hit 20+ bombs every year.

Robert, Moncada, and Jimenez could conceivably hit 100-120 (in a full season) just between the three of them before you even get to guys like Abreu, Grandal, Anderson, Encarnacion, etc.

Edited August 3, 20205 yr by lostfan
I can't count to 4

On 8/2/2020 at 2:55 AM, soxfan49 said:

Delete your account

So basically he's going to be worse than Carlos Sanchez and Avisail Garcia.   Amazing prediction based on the first two games of his big league career.

7 minutes ago, lostfan said:

Robert, Moncada, and Jimenez could conceivably hit 100-120 (in a full season) just between the three of them before you even get to guys like Abreu, Grandal, Anderson, Encarnacion, etc.

The last time the Sox had this kind of power top to bottom in a line-up was the 2000 team, but 2000, 2002-2005 and 2006.

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The last time the Sox had this kind of power top to bottom in a line-up was the 2000 team, but 2000, 2002-2005 and 2006.

2006 was the year I was thinking of, with Konerko-Thome-Dye-Crede but dare I say Robert-Moncada-Abreu-Jimenez will be better

5 minutes ago, lostfan said:

2006 was the year I was thinking of, with Konerko-Thome-Dye-Crede but dare I say Robert-Moncada-Abreu-Jimenez will be better

This lineup is more balanced top to bottom than the 2006 team.

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

This lineup is more balanced top to bottom than the 2006 team.

Absolutely, got a legitimate leadoff hitter and 8-9 aren't gaping holes

3 minutes ago, lostfan said:

Absolutely, got a legitimate leadoff hitter and 8-9 aren't gaping holes

And the 2006 lineup was excellent. It just didn’t have the same depth. SSS but the Sox currently lead the AL in runs scored, batting average and OPS.

I think people should just be happy that our top pick from 2 years ago is already up contributing to a win with 4 f’n hits. 

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

His defense alone puts him on a major league roster for the next decade. 

Tell that to Yolmer, the guy who just won a gold glove.

Edited August 3, 20205 yr by Yearnin' for Yermin

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Thirded. When I think of Madrigal, Polanco is the first guy that comes to mind......as his ceiling. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/polanpl01.shtml

Polanco has 40 WAR for his career (37 on fangraphs), getting that out of your 4th pick would be a spectacular success. Obviously he is not guaranteed to be that good but 37 career war would make madrigal the second best 4th overall pick of the last 20 years (just behind ryan Zimmerman and way ahead of the next guy).

23 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Tell that to Yolmer, the guy who just won a gold glove.

Madrigal has a lot more offensive potential than Yolmer. He's never going to hit 30 HR but Yolmer is a pretty low bar at the plate.

Madrigal's baserunning and SB potential are something Yolmer never had.

If Madrigal plays GG defense, gets you 25-30 SB, and puts up .750 OPS, that's a good outcome, especially in the context of our team

18 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

Polanco has 40 WAR for his career (37 on fangraphs), getting that out of your 4th pick would be a spectacular success. Obviously he is not guaranteed to be that good but 37 career war would make madrigal the second best 4th overall pick of the last 20 years (just behind ryan Zimmerman and way ahead of the next guy).

 

Seriously, 40 WAR is a spectacular outcome for a #4 overall pick

We used to be able to skip the Home half  inning to catch a bite or do something when the middle and bottom of our Order was  due up. Now, you don't want to miss anything because there is a good a chance to see hits,  home runs and scoring in every inning. That must be absolutely dreadful for opposing pitchers. 

The other thing is that our  hitters are being patient at the plate. They aren't just hitting home runs but are covering the plate when there is two strikes on them and getting clutch hits.  It's really been a pleasure to watch so far. Not much to not  like about our 2020 White Sox.

 

 

Glad to see him succeed today.  But i will say that he needs to get better pitch recognition.  He swings at far too many pitchers’ pitches early in counts.  His bat to ball skills are elite, but weak contact on tough pitches early in the count is not going to work in the long run.  

The Twins and White Sox line-ups aren't that far apart anymore.

If you can run out a Max Kepler or Nomar Mazara at #8, or Madrigal at #9, that's a STOUT line-up.

Donaldson <<< Moncada

Polanco === Anderson (both need to have repeats to prove success wasn't fluky)

Arraez >>> Madrigal (at least for now)

Sano === Abreu

Garver <<< Grandal/McCann (don't believe he can repeat his monster 2019)

Rosario === Jimenez

Buxton <<< Robert

Kepler >>> whoever we have in RF

N. Cruz >>> EE

 

Of course, then you have to factor in Vaughn/Kopech.   Eventually, Minnesota will have Lewis, Kiriloff and Fathom's favorite Trevor Larnach.  Buxton and Berrios will be gone after 2022 season...then the division shifts completely towards CHW, DET, KCR

 

Very good comparison Cauli.

I would just add a few more arrows  >>>> for Nelson Cruz over EE, and that has been one of the few disappointments thus far.,

 

6 minutes ago, tray said:

Very good comparison Cauli.

I would just add a few more arrows  >>>> for Nelson Cruz over EE, and that has been one of the few disappointments thus far.,

 

White Sox fans will definitely argue Jimenez over Rosario, but it's not even close on fWAR.   Rosario's a better all-around player, for sure, but Jimenez is going to end up the much more impactful hitter.

Donaldson's a HoF 3B, in all probability, and 90% of Twins' fans would pick him over Moncada, but arguably only for 2020 (at most) and not beyond.

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Schwarber at #4 was considered an overdraft at the time. He was considered to be a teens level pick.

I don't even get the issue if Schwarber was playing in the AL he'd be just fine the issue he has and for the cubs is they can't hide him defensively and 1B is already taken but he'll get paid a decent figure for his bat if/when he hits FA. How is he some sort of cautionary tale?

Hell we are paying a 37 year old Edwin 12M and Abreu 50m/3. So if you look at it from the perspective had we drafted someone like Schwarber instead then that would have freed 12m=17 to buy some pitching or spend on a 2B and Schwarber is a massive upgrade over Edwin and Abreu as well at this point in their careers.

But enough about getting sidetracked on Schwarber

11 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

I don't even get the issue if Schwarber was playing in the AL he'd be just fine the issue he has and for the cubs is they can't hide him defensively and 1B is already taken but he'll get paid a decent figure for his bat if/when he hits FA. How is he some sort of cautionary tale?

Hell we are paying a 37 year old Edwin 12M and Abreu 50m/3. So if you look at it from the perspective had we drafted someone like Schwarber instead then that would have freed 12m=17 to buy some pitching or spend on a 2B and Schwarber is a massive upgrade over Edwin and Abreu as well at this point in their careers.

But enough about getting sidetracked on Schwarber

He’s just using the example of Schwarber to demonstrate that it’s actually pretty rare to draft contributing talent even in the first round as a sure thing... pointing out that he was ranked to go much later, in the late teens.

Past some 1-1 and 1-2 guys in a lot of years... and even including them in others, the MLB draft is an educated crap shoot.

3 hours ago, hi8is said:

He’s just using the example of Schwarber to demonstrate that it’s actually pretty rare to draft contributing talent even in the first round as a sure thing... pointing out that he was ranked to go much later, in the late teens.

Past some 1-1 and 1-2 guys in a lot of years... and even including them in others, the MLB draft is an educated crap shoot.

See Brady Aiken, Tyler Kolek and Carlos Rodon...or Gordon Beckham's draft class.

Edited August 3, 20205 yr by caulfield12