1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have zero problems with adding another starter up front in free agency, adding a depth starter, and then letting Lopez, Cease, Kopech and Dunning battle it out for the last spot or two.  You own all of these guys rights for 4 to 7 years still, why waste that ownership?  The need to act rashly just isn't prudent here.  You have all of these assets, why not try to maximize them as the cheapest possible options for your own team?

What I don't want to do is start giving these guys away after a minimal amount of major league struggles and then needing them down the line after they break out when the guy who you got in the deal has left in free agency.

Just return all the same guys in that scenario. That way you definitely don't waste ownership. Start Lopez and Cease again and see what happens. We're not championship contenders. 

20 minutes ago, Baron said:

Times a wasting whether you like it or not. Cease and Lopez should have stepped up last year if they wanted to cement themselves in the rotation. That's why they didn't get a playoff start. 

Hell if your good with the rotation. Why not give Lopez a shot? Stop leaning on the bullpen too let them eat the games they blow up in. We can waste years for more development what's more games during the season? 

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things does not belong. 

Lopez has had 3 full seasons of being dogshit, where Cease, Kopech and Dunning haven't even pitched a full season yet. 

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things does not belong. 

Lopez has had 3 full seasons of being dogshit, where Cease, Kopech and Dunning haven't even pitched a full season yet. 

But he has service time that we have ownership of. Why waste that? He's cheap and who knows maybe our new pitching coach will turn him around. Remember Giolito? Give it a shot. We're not championship contenders so let's take a swing at it. 

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by Baron

1 minute ago, Baron said:

Just return all the same guys in that scenario. That way you definitely don't waste ownership. Start Lopez and Cease again and see what happens. We're not championship contenders. 

Nobody is saying they shouldn't upgrade the rotation and RF. 

What people are saying is that they shouldn't be trading top prospects to do it. 

Spend money, keep the prospects. 

37 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Uhhhhhh Bernie, you had to ruin the fun today didn’t you? 

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by maloney.adam

Just now, Baron said:

But he has service time that we have ownership of. Why waste that? He's cheap and who knows maybe our new pitching coach will turn him around. Remember Giolito? Give it a shot. 

Giolito was only dogshit for 1 season. Then he became a high end #2 with ace potential. 

3 minutes ago, Baron said:

Just return all the same guys in that scenario. That way you definitely don't waste ownership. Start Lopez and Cease again and see what happens. We're not championship contenders. 

There is a difference between starting all kids, and trading them all away for 1 year of control, you understand that right?

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Nobody is saying they shouldn't upgrade the rotation and RF. 

What people are saying is that they shouldn't be trading top prospects to do it. 

Spend money, keep the prospects. 

They don’t have enough money to fill all the holes needed to make them a legit WS contender via free agency 

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by fathom

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

There is a difference between starting all kids, and trading them all away for 1 year of control, you understand that right?

Who's been talking about trading them all away? Nice strawman. 

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have zero problems with adding another starter up front in free agency, adding a depth starter, and then letting Lopez, Cease, Kopech and Dunning battle it out for the last spot or two.  You own all of these guys rights for 4 to 7 years still, why waste that ownership?  The need to act rashly just isn't prudent here.  You have all of these assets, why not try to maximize them as the cheapest possible options for your own team?

What I don't want to do is start giving these guys away after a minimal amount of major league struggles and then needing them down the line after they break out when the guy who you got in the deal has left in free agency.

Same.  We're in the enviable position of having a complete enough roster to be able to act with "win-now" urgency AND protect our assets -- that's because we a) don't have that many holes to fill; and b) have money to spend on free agents.  (And those free agents don't even have to be Bauer and Springer.)  Let's not force tough decisions on ourselves when we don't need to.

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Nobody is saying they shouldn't upgrade the rotation and RF. 

What people are saying is that they shouldn't be trading top prospects to do it. 

Spend money, keep the prospects. 

And if you are going to trade, make sure the guys you give up, match the length of the return you are getting back.

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

And if you are going to trade, make sure the guys you give up, match the length of the return you are getting back.

Well then you’re never trading prospects with that approach

1 minute ago, fathom said:

They don’t have enough money to fill all the holes needed to make them a legit WS contender via free agency 

And them doing so would be a first. 

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

They don’t have enough money to fill all the holes needed to make them a legit WS contender via free agency 

What the fuck are you talking about? 

They only have 3 holes on the entire team: 

RF, a #2/3 SP and DH. 

They have internal options for the 2nd two in Kopech/Cease and Vaughn. 

If they don't have enough money to fill 3 holes, then they're not winning championships anyway and we should just trade everyone and start over again. 

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

3 minutes ago, Baron said:

Who's been talking about trading them all away? Nice strawman. 

So you made a point about not being willing to give a way 1 year AND mentioned trading Dunning and Cease for Lynn, but you aren't talking about giving guys away.  Ok. 

Just now, Baron said:

And them doing so would be a first. 

It’s like some are just ignoring there were no fans last year and no guarantee of fans next year. It’s easier just to make Jerry the boogeyman instead of realizing the tough economic situation all these teams face.

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Well then you’re never trading prospects with that approach

Today?  No I am not in a big hurry to do so.  A year or two down the road that might change, but as of now, the window has barely opened.

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

So you made a point about not being willing to give a way 1 year AND mentioned trading Dunning and Cease for Lynn, but you aren't talking about giving guys away.  Ok. 

Where did I mentioned trading both guys for Lynn? 

1 minute ago, fathom said:

It’s like some are just ignoring there were no fans last year and no guarantee of fans next year. It’s easier just to make Jerry the boogeyman instead of realizing the tough economic situation all these teams face.

That's even more of a reason to hold on to the prospects. 

It shouldn't be that expensive to sign a pitcher like Tanaka or the Japanese imports and fix RF with a Pederson/Engel platoon. If they don't want to bring up Vaughn now, they can sign Brantley to split LF/DH with Eloy. 

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

What the fuck are you talking about? 

They only have 3 holes on the entire team: 

RF, a #2/3 SP and DH. 

If they don't have enough money to fill 3 holes, then they're not winning championships anyway and we should just trade everyone and start over again. 

They aren’t adding 40 million or so via free agency

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

What the fuck are you talking about? 

They only have 3 holes on the entire team: 

RF, a #2/3 SP and DH. 

If they don't have enough money to fill 3 holes, then they're not winning championships anyway and we should just trade everyone and start over again. 

Really only 2 if you believe Vaughn will help this season, as I do.

1 minute ago, fathom said:

It’s like some are just ignoring there were no fans last year and no guarantee of fans next year. It’s easier just to make Jerry the boogeyman instead of realizing the tough economic situation all these teams face.

And if we aren't going to spend, why would we rush to give away reinforcements?

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Today?  No I am not in a big hurry to do so.  A year or two down the road that might change, but as of now, the window has barely opened.

Good thing I’m 99 pct confident the organization disagrees

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Good thing I’m 99 pct confident the organization disagrees

You mean Rick Hahn isn't ready to punt on 2021? 

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

And if we aren't going to spend, why would we rush to give away reinforcements?

Why is it so hard for some to understand that Lynn is a bonafide TOR starter that costs 8 million if you trade for him. Meanwhile number 5 starters are getting more than that in free agency. It’s easy to see why that path is more intriguing to Jerry.