2 minutes ago, fathom said:

I’m not even high on Dunning and that trade worries me.  Phillies better be eating a decent amount to include that much in return.

That’s not that much in return compared to what other teams have been asking from us.

Edited December 6, 20205 yr by maloney.adam

24 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

The point of signing a Bauer or trading for a Wheeler is that we have two really good SPs and then junk. What is the purpose of acquiring another good one while giving up one of the two we have?

1) In my deal we are getting Harper also.  We probably do nto need to send out money if we're only taking back Wheeler.  But then it takes us out of the running for both Bauer and Springer, and probably caps our next SP at 8-9M or less.

2) 2 really good pitchers?  Wouldn't we have 3 if we kept Keuchel?

3) We don't have "junk" behind our veterans.  We have some excellent young pitching prospects.  

Just now, maloney.adam said:

That’s not that much in return compared to what that other teams have been asking from us.

But Wheeler is getting paid as a number one guy while the other trade targets are getting paid like a number 4 or 5 guy

Just now, maloney.adam said:

Snell?

Snell at his contract is still a good value 

People trying to disparage my Keuchel + Grandal for Wheeler + Harper deal, why don't you honestly try to rank these 4 players 1-4 in terms of which players are the best players first.

My list:

1) Harper

2) Wheeler

3) Keuchel

4) Grandal 

There are other variations but if you're honest we're getting the 2 best players in the deal. 

Also we could just sign McCann! instead of Realmuto, if it came to that.  And if no McCann, with the kind of lineup we would be putting out 1-7, we could afford to sign a defensive-first C to hit 8th with Madrigal 9th and we would be just fine offensively.

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Snell at his contract is still a good value 

Your correct on Snell. I had deleted my post.

Edited December 6, 20205 yr by maloney.adam

18 minutes ago, bmags said:

The latter. I just don’t like paying for control. Would rather just pay for talent deals.

Yes, agreed--if we must trade prospects for SP at all, which I hope we don't unless it's a bargain deal.

Eff Wheeler. We offered him an extra 7 million and he turned us down so that his wi.... girlfriend could be closer to her sister.. Let him get traded to the Angels to really piss her off. 

Snell at the cost of 6 years of Vaughn and/or 5+ years of Kopech isn't such a great value anymore.3

I would do Jimmy's deal of Wheeler for Dunning and parts with cash coming back.  But I highly doubt that Wheeler would come that cheap.  If Dunning is the centerpiece then we're probably not getting any cash back and the second piece is of quality, like Heuer or something, and definitely something we would miss.  Keep in mind we are now going to be bidding against other clubs for Wheeler.  Some of these clubs might rather have a cheaper Wheeler than Bauer at whatever his sexy-as-fuck agent is asking for.

4 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

1) In my deal we are getting Harper also.  We probably do nto need to send out money if we're only taking back Wheeler.  But then it takes us out of the running for both Bauer and Springer, and probably caps our next SP at 8-9M or less.

2) 2 really good pitchers?  Wouldn't we have 3 if we kept Keuchel?

3) We don't have "junk" behind our veterans.  We have some excellent young pitching prospects.  

Your trade involved sending Keuchel to Philly. We have some good pitching prospects, yes, but I want to go deep in the playoffs in 2021. At this moment, starting Cease, Kopech or Dunning in game 3 of round 1 isn’t going to help us do that.

9 minutes ago, fathom said:

There is no better fit for this offense than Harper. Would rather have him than Wheeler, to be honest.  I have a feeling Phillies would be open to trading him.  Also, this guy had the Wheeler stuff yesterday and said Harper is available.

https://mobile.twitter.com/brian_jenks/status/1335285192752238595

That’s just a huge salary commitment that goes on for way too long.  No doubt he’d be awesome for our window, but paying that contract in the second half of this decade could suck.

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

That’s just a huge salary commitment that goes on for way too long.  No doubt he’d be awesome for our window, but paying that contract in the second half of this decade could suck.

Why would Jerry care about the second half

10 minutes ago, Flash said:

According to Roster Resource, Wheeler is owed a bit more than 21.5/yr.

 

Zack Wheeler

30.5

5 yr, $118M (2020-24)

$23,600,000

$22,500,000

$26,000,000

$24,500,000

$23,500,000

$24.1M per

10 minutes ago, fathom said:

I’m not even high on Dunning and that trade worries me.  Phillies better be eating a decent amount to include that much in return.

Agreed.

Just now, Danny Dravot said:

Your trade involved sending Keuchel to Philly. We have some good pitching prospects, yes, but I want to go deep in the playoffs in 2021. At this moment, starting Cease, Kopech or Dunning in game 3 of round 1 isn’t going to help us do that.

Yes because we would be getting Harper.  We, again, can't take back both of those salaries at once.  The only other salaries of magnitude we could send out would be Abreu (Sox aren't trading him) and our core pieces which have been extended.  Ideally we would send out the players in their 30s already making FA market value.  But again, if it is just Wheeler and no Harper, we do not need to send anyone out.

Also I do not believe we should assume the Phils are rebuilding.  My deal has the Phillies getting 2 SP in exchange for 1, and they get a starting C to replace Realmuto, plus a closer in Heuer.  They could realistically look at that deal and see it as an opportunity to both save money and become a better team in the immediate present and future, versus whatever the current alternatives are (no money to play with on the FA market with numerous holes).

12 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

Eff Wheeler. We offered him an extra 7 million and he turned us down so that his wi.... girlfriend could be closer to her sister.. Let him get traded to the Angels to really piss her off. 

Honestly, agreed. What kind of wimp let's his girlfriend (not even wife) dictate his living location while taking 7m less in a deal? The guy has no backbone. 

Edited December 7, 20205 yr by Yearnin' for Yermin

11 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

I’d give up Kopech, Cease, Dunning, Vaughn for Wheeler AND Harper in a heartbeat, it won’t happen but I’m just saying I would not be hesistant to include any of those guys for *BOTH*

That might be the worst trade in baseball history. 

10 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

I’d give up Kopech, Cease, Dunning, Vaughn for Wheeler AND Harper in a heartbeat, it won’t happen but I’m just saying I would not be hesistant to include any of those guys for *BOTH*

That's a good way to shorten our window dramatically and increase the chance we'll see a "what went wrong" article about the Sox in a couple years.

14 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

I have a bad feeling that a Dunning trade will really bite us in the ass. 

Dunning had some quality starts for us last year no doubt but who knows if he can do that for a full season. 

14 minutes ago, runtheballdown said:

And no Harper. As soon as he left the Nats theNats won.coincidence? I think not

Definitely coincidence

Just now, maloney.adam said:

Dunning had some quality starts for us last year no doubt but who knows if he can do that for a full season. 

He will be Shane Bieber-lite

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

Why would Jerry care about the second half

Yeah Jerry is 85 it's probably not his problem. 

I think Dunning's window is a #3-#5, with a high likelihood of being a #4.  I think the high point on him in terms of overall production is thinking about what Jon Garland did here, even though they are different pitchers.  I am not sure Dunning could pull off what Garland did in 2005 as a career year but it probably wouldn't surprise many people if he did.  

I think Dunning is normally the kind of guy we would definitely hold onto **if** we didn't have so much top-end ceiling SP at the high MiLB or MLB level already.  We literally need to make room for these guys, so someone has to be traded.

5 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Yes because we would be getting Harper.  We, again, can't take back both of those salaries at once.  The only other salaries of magnitude we could send out would be Abreu (Sox aren't trading him) and our core pieces which have been extended.  Ideally we would send out the players in their 30s already making FA market value.  But again, if it is just Wheeler and no Harper, we do not need to send anyone out.

Also I do not believe we should assume the Phils are rebuilding.  My deal has the Phillies getting 2 SP in exchange for 1, and they get a starting C to replace Realmuto, plus a closer in Heuer.  They could realistically look at that deal and see it as an opportunity to both save money and become a better team in the immediate present and future, versus whatever the current alternatives are (no money to play with on the FA market with numerous holes).

You’re missing my point. I don’t care about Harper. I don’t see replacing Keuchel with Wheeler, which is what you’re doing, as an improvement.