47 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

I'm saying EVERYONE knows the "usefulness of being a tough out AND getting hits consistently". We are properly valuing that skill set, maybe overvaluing it when it comes to Madrigal.

To be above average as I stated it (walks) does, or he has to hit .350+..... or the power needs to increase.  

 

 

I am not a doubter.  In fact quite the opposite.   I am a realist who pointed out that if the small sample size (my words which I guess you missed) of dumb baserunning and poor defense perpetuates over a full season then Madrigal's offensive production would need an unrealistic improvement to allow for him to be an above average 2nd basemen.  

 

 

There is a difference between mediocre, above average and superstar. Never did I (or anyone) claim Madrigal needed to be a superstar. I sometimes wonder if you even read what you are responding to?  It is like you create a pretend narrative,  and then argue against that. I won't fall for it again. 

 

Your responses were overall fair. The bolded is what I was disputing as you claimed he would "never be an above average" 2nd baseman without the tools you mentioned. I respectfully disagree. You did say that; there was no narrative.

Edited January 14, 20215 yr by RagahRagah

Sounds like he's spoken with LaRussa and it went well:

 

20 minutes ago, almagest said:

Sounds like he's spoken with LaRussa and it went well:

 

Don't tell 95% of the board. 

38 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

Don't tell 95% of the board. 

Do you really think if there was turmoil that most of these guys would say so? This could be pure cliché. Not saying it is, but speaking so matter-of-factly about quotes like this always amuses me. Most guys are going to keep their months shut regardless.

1 hour ago, almagest said:

Sounds like he's spoken with LaRussa and it went well:

 

"Family environment" in the clubhouse? Makes sense why Eaton wanted to come back ?

1 hour ago, RagahRagah said:

Do you really think if there was turmoil that most of these guys would say so? This could be pure cliché. Not saying it is, but speaking so matter-of-factly about quotes like this always amuses me. Most guys are going to keep their months shut regardless.

Eh, not always the case. See: 2016 Spring Training Chicago White Sox.

How did the Madrigal slappies turn this into a Madrigal pumping thread?  Man I hope this dude balls out so some of you guys find another player in need of a defense force.

6 hours ago, GREEDY said:

 

I strongly disagree with almost everything you post here.  And this take is no different.

I think in the history of this sub, the fanbase has never been more aware of a young players "approach" and "intangibles" than we have of Madrigal's.

If Nick were Latin our fanbase would be 5X more critical of the small sample size baserunning & defense we saw in 2020.  He is getting a major benefit of the doubt because of his college resume and grindy scouting reports.  His ceiling is only so high with limited power and zero walk rate.  If Madrigal ends up with anything less than elite intangibles and great defense he just can't be an above average second baseman.  

 

Yep...I keep telling you guys those .340 hitters are easy to find. 

2 hours ago, ScooterMcGee said:

Eh, not always the case. See: 2016 Spring Training Chicago White Sox.

Of course not always the case, and I said as much. But you can't automatically assume. History has definitely proven it, too. 

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Yep...I keep telling you guys those .340 hitters are easy to find. 

Yeah, I guess I should have also asked what statistic says you have to hit .340 to be above average because of a few deficiencies. No one average hits .340, lol.

4 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

Do you really think if there was turmoil that most of these guys would say so? This could be pure cliché. Not saying it is, but speaking so matter-of-factly about quotes like this always amuses me. Most guys are going to keep their months shut regardless.

But again I was told all the players, Kenny, and Hahn would demand trades or leave immediately. Still I wait. 

8 hours ago, GREEDY said:

 

I strongly disagree with almost everything you post here.  And this take is no different.

I think in the history of this sub, the fanbase has never been more aware of a young players "approach" and "intangibles" than we have of Madrigal's.

If Nick were Latin our fanbase would be 5X more critical of the small sample size baserunning & defense we saw in 2020.  He is getting a major benefit of the doubt because of his college resume and grindy scouting reports.  His ceiling is only so high with limited power and zero walk rate.  If Madrigal ends up with anything less than elite intangibles and great defense he just can't be an above average second baseman.  

 

You must not have been on this board because we laid into Nick for his mental mistakes and errors. 

19 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

You must not have been on this board because we laid into Nick for his mental mistakes and errors. 

Nick and Leury both get rightly ripped for doing stupid shit on the bases.  Didn't really see much bias in it, at least on this board.  

27 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Nick and Leury both get rightly ripped for doing stupid shit on the bases.  Didn't really see much bias in it, at least on this board.  

Thinking through the years, Soxtalk has been pretty equitable in who they hit... black, white, Latino, doesn't matter.

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

But again I was told all the players, Kenny, and Hahn would demand trades or leave immediately. Still I wait. 

You weren't told that by me. Totally irrelevant.

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Thinking through the years, Soxtalk has been pretty equitable in who they hit... black, white, Latino, doesn't matter.

the beauty of Fandom. ?

Edited January 15, 20215 yr by chitownsportsfan

16 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

Yeah, I guess I should have also asked what statistic says you have to hit .340 to be above average because of a few deficiencies. No one average hits .340, lol.

While I have been supportive of Madrigal in general I am straddling the fence re: his future going forward. I think it's easy to say he won't be a .340 hitter moving forward.

We can manipulate his stats like I have done to say his OPS was higher than Roberts in both their rookie seasons but due to defense and baserunning Robert was the much more valuable player and even got some pub as a top 10 CF in baseball right now on that show that MLB network did recently.

I have given Madrigal the benefit of the doubt due to his injury and adjustments that many rookies have to make even the uber prospect Robert.

I can also manipulate another stat I heard about Madrigal regarding his OPS. It was the lowest in baseball history for a guy who had that batting average in the same amount of AB's. That means he really needs to take more walks and get more extra base hits along with improving his base running and fielding to be as valuable as many think he can be. I'm inclined to wanting him to stick around but would'nt be as upset as some if he's traded.