All posts about current role/innings pitched expectations/strategies for working on secondary pitches in side work vs. high-leverage relief situations/possible post-season or Winter Ball "stretching out."

Post/discuss here.

Theoretical 2021 innings target: 70-80ish?

He won't be a starting pitcher, ever.

He wont have enough inning, and will dominate in the bullpen to where you can't move him out of it (ala Hader).

6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

All posts about current role/innings pitched expectations/strategies for working on secondary pitches in side work vs. high-leverage relief situations/possible post-season or Winter Ball "stretching out."

Post/discuss here.

Theoretical 2021 innings target: 70-80ish?

You're forgetting potential postseason innings. If they go to the ALCS then it helps immensely. 

5 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

He wont have enough inning, and will dominate in the bullpen to where you can't move him out of it (ala Hader).

Then why spend $54M on Hendriks? 

Gio, Kuechel, Lynn, Cease, Kopech, Crotchet is unfair

Kopech and Crotchet ready to dominate in time for the exits of Kuechel and Lynn

25 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Then why spend $54M on Hendriks? 

Not to mention the presence of Bummer from the left-hand side...well, it’s the Sale to the pen in 2010 and 2011 argument.

Sale went 71 innings in 2011, 192 and 214 over a three year stretch.

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

He won't be a starting pitcher, ever.

They're gonna waste a special talent.  

Every pitcher in baseball is down innings this year, so every starter will be watched, occasionally skipped.  That means an unprecedented number of bullpen innings across the majors.  I think Crochet does get to 80 innings this year.  Kopech too.

11 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They're gonna waste a special talent.  

yup.

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

He won't be a starting pitcher, ever.

I worry the same for Kopech. If Kopech doesn't end up in the rotation at some point this year, I don't think he ever does, and that's just a waste of both him and Crochet. 

If they're not going to develop both guys properly, they're more valuable in a trade to a team that will. 

Edited April 1, 20214 yr by Jack Parkman

17 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Every pitcher in baseball is down innings this year, so every starter will be watched, occasionally skipped.  That means an unprecedented number of bullpen innings across the majors.  I think Crochet does get to 80 innings this year.  Kopech too.

And the injuries will probably skyrocket too. It's gonna be a real struggle for every team other than maybe the Dodgers to find competent arms to get them through the season. The White Sox having a bunch of multi-inning relievers is very helpful in that regard

3 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

He won't be a starting pitcher, ever.

He will be a full time starter in 2023. Barring significant injuries, of course.

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Not to mention the presence of Bummer from the left-hand side...well, it’s the Sale to the pen in 2010 and 2011 argument.

Sale went 71 innings in 2011, 192 and 214 over a three year stretch.

Llet's not forget - the jump from 71 innings to 192 in 2012 almost didn't happen. Sale had arm soreness and went on the IL for a month in late April,  and had to overturn a table yelling at Kenny Williams to get back into the rotation after they publicly announced he was the closer permanently. Chris Sale shows that this plan was on a knife edge, and had Williams not gone along with Sale's tantrum - Moncada is starting at 2b for Boston today.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-xpm-2012-05-15-sns-rt-bbo-white-sox-playerwatchmtze85f1bw1s7-20120515-story.html

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Llet's not forget - the jump from 71 innings to 192 in 2012 almost didn't happen. Sale had arm soreness and went on the IL for a month in late April,  and had to overturn a table yelling at Kenny Williams to get back into the rotation after they publicly announced he was the closer permanently. Chris Sale shows that this plan was on a knife edge, and had Williams not gone along with Sale's tantrum - Moncada is starting at 2b for Boston today.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-xpm-2012-05-15-sns-rt-bbo-white-sox-playerwatchmtze85f1bw1s7-20120515-story.html

I don't think the situations are really comparable though. Sale may have only had 71 innings but he had a history as a full time starter in college. He knew his routine and had built up innings as a starter. Crochet doesn't have any of that. His process will be an extra year, if he proves he can handle a starter load. There is still a question of that because he has never done it.

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I don't think the situations are really comparable though. Sale may have only had 71 innings but he had a history as a full time starter in college. He knew his routine and had built up innings as a starter. Crochet doesn't have any of that. His process will be an extra year, if he proves he can handle a starter load. There is still a question of that because he has never done it.

You continue to do an excellent job for explaining why this decision likely leaves him permanently in the bullpen.

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

You continue to do an excellent job for explaining why this decision likely leaves him permanently in the bullpen.

I think it is a possibility. However, I don't think its some grand conspiracy theory that the FO has planned this all along. They have no idea and neither does anyone else, if he can handle it. I think they hope he can and will progress him as if he will be. It's not a secret the starters are more valuable than relievers.

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I worry the same for Kopech. If Kopech doesn't end up in the rotation at some point this year, I don't think he ever does, and that's just a waste of both him and Crochet. 

If they're not going to develop both guys properly, they're more valuable in a trade to a team that will. 

Kopech will be in this rotation by July at the latest.  Rodon and Lopez aren't lasting the season as the #5.  

8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I think it is a possibility. However, I don't think its some grand conspiracy theory that the FO has planned this all along. They have no idea and neither does anyone else, if he can handle it. I think they hope he can and will progress him as if he will be. It's not a secret the starters are more valuable than relievers.

No, it's not a grand conspiracy. It's a sucker bet. You might get lucky and win once, and convince yourself it's a great idea because it didn't go terribly. You do it a few times and the casino takes your house.

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Kopech will be in this rotation by July at the latest.  Rodon and Lopez aren't lasting the season as the #5.  

My problem with that statement is that Kopech is not streched out at all. If someone goes down for under 3 weeks, there's literally not enough time to get him ready to pitch 5 innings. If that happens maybe they even send him down to get his work in, and give Lopez or Stiever 3 starts while Kopech stretches out for 4 innings. If it is "oh Rodon's shoulder is sore, we're going to put him on the 10 day IL", they'll use Lopez for 1 start and Mr. Offday for another.

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Kopech will be in this rotation by July at the latest.  Rodon and Lopez aren't lasting the season as the #5.  

But how if we keep pitching him 1 inning?

I'd love to hear @Y2Jimmy0 on his thoughts with Crochet and Kopech 

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No, it's not a grand conspiracy. It's a sucker bet. You might get lucky and win once, and convince yourself it's a great idea because it didn't go terribly. You do it a few times and the casino takes your house.

Are you saying that Crochet can't become a start because they start him in the bullpen? I would disagree. Many pitchers have started in the pen and gone on to be starters.

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

My problem with that statement is that Kopech is not streched out at all. If someone goes down for under 3 weeks, there's literally not enough time to get him ready to pitch 5 innings. If that happens maybe they even send him down to get his work in, and give Lopez or Stiever 3 starts while Kopech stretches out for 4 innings. If it is "oh Rodon's shoulder is sore, we're going to put him on the 10 day IL", they'll use Lopez for 1 start and Mr. Offday for another.

I think you answered your own question in this post.  If someone goes down, Lopez fills in while Kopech gets stretched out.  

Another option would be piggybacking a mixture of Lopez/Kopech/Crochet to stretch out Kopech more slowly until he's ready to go 5+.  

I am confident the Sox still see Kopech as a SP, and while I hate what they're doing I refuse to believe he won't be starting at some point this season.  

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

My problem with that statement is that Kopech is not streched out at all. If someone goes down for under 3 weeks, there's literally not enough time to get him ready to pitch 5 innings. If that happens maybe they even send him down to get his work in, and give Lopez or Stiever 3 starts while Kopech stretches out for 4 innings. If it is "oh Rodon's shoulder is sore, we're going to put him on the 10 day IL", they'll use Lopez for 1 start and Mr. Offday for another.

Not yet. If they stick to their plan of him progressing to a multi-inning reliever, he will be.