Heyman: Sox interested in someone on some team. Nightengale: *nods*

[Lillian]

I suspect that any minute, someone will suggest that Hahn go get Puig from Veracruz, in the Mexican League. I hope not.

[South Side Hit Men]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Our team is on the IL.

2 of the 3 were likely to have substantial injuries (Eloy and Eaton), consistent with their prior health history, not to mention the fact Eloy is a terrible fielder, despite his best efforts to improve.

This should have been addressed the past two off seasons with two corner OFers signed and Eloy slotted to DH. Mazara, Parrot and Eaton were not the answers.

Edited June 22, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Ok so ignore the putrid hitting stats all you want and lack of defense or speed. Fine by me. Hope you are happy when Vaughn becomes a great player at 1st base and the Sox don't win any World Series during the supposed decade long window.

Our differences cannot be settled now.

It seems like you feel that Andrew Vaughn will never improve, which I can't disagree with enough.  He's a rookie going through rookie growth pains.  Maybe a Jake Lamb is a better option today, but Andrew Vaughn is going to be a professional hitter for a long time at the major league level.  If he had been able to play OF when he was drafted, he may well have been a 1-1 candidate.  You given Andrew Vaughn all of the ABs you can because unlike Jake Lamb, the kid has major upside.  Heck there is even a real chance that Vaughn is a better hitter by the end of this season, let alone the next 10 years.

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I suspect that any minute, someone will suggest that Hahn go get Puig from Veracruz, in the Mexican League. I hope not.

Puigs legal Issues have him on an island.  I don't think that he is in the mlb any time soon

[ChiSox59]

3 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Vaughn needs to go down, so that he can stop hurting this team, AND maybe he can get his shit sorted in time to come back up to help this team. RIGHT NOW, Goodwin, Leury, and Lamb are all better choices than Vaughn is right now, at least vs RHP. Platooning him isn't an answer, and neither is letting him continue to cirlce the drain while this team struggles. 

This team just called up Luis Gonzalez and is currently without their #1,#2,#3,#4, and #7 OFs on their depth chart and you want to send Vaughn down?  Its obvious he's struggled against RHP - no denying that.  But he's the LF, and due to all these injuries, its just the way its going to be.  Vaughn learning to hit RHP at this level and continuing to mash LHP is far better than demoting him.  Is it ideal?  Nah.  But such is life when the team is this banged up.  

[ChiSox59]

21 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Ok so ignore the putrid hitting stats all you want and lack of defense or speed. Fine by me. Hope you are happy when Vaughn becomes a great player at 1st base and the Sox don't win any World Series during the supposed decade long window.

Our differences cannot be settled now.

Huh?  

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

Puigs legal Issues have him on an island.  I don't think that he is in the mlb any time soon

Well, actually, he's countersued his accuser a few weeks ago, so perhaps there will be some clarity with that.

The alleged actions occurred solidly within the statute of limitations. So if the alleged victim has a case, then one would assume that she could go to the sheriff's office, file a complaint, and that would be that for Puig, his career, and his legal case.

 

However, the alleged victim hasn't done that, but rather, went straight for the cash, and [AFAIK] not gone to the sheriff's office. It is for this reason that I have my reasons to wonder about the veracity of her accusations. IF there's a case, then take it to the sheriff, who would take it to the DA, who would give them their day in court. One can always go back to court and get your cash damages later, or put a lien on his future earnings/pension.

 

Every one of these accusations should be investigated thoroughly, and if a criminal offense has occurred, then the accused should have their day in court, and if found guilty, serve a sentence. But I wonder why, in the day and age of "Me Too," that the Sheriff wasn't contacted about this.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Andrew Vaughn has been nearly a league average hitter (wRC+ of 98) But he needs to be demoted when the Sox have no outfielders on their roster and he's been more than adequate in LF. Holy moly, talk about some logical thinkers here at Soxtalk!

[Two-Gun Pete]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

This team just called up Luis Gonzalez and is currently without their #1,#2,#3,#4, and #7 OFs on their depth chart and you want to send Vaughn down?  Its obvious he's struggled against RHP - no denying that.  But he's the LF, and due to all these injuries, its just the way its going to be.  Vaughn learning to hit RHP at this level and continuing to mash LHP is far better than demoting him.  Is it ideal?  Nah.  But such is life when the team is this banged up.  

Yes: His wrc+ has gotten shittier month over month. This means that his opponents have him dead to rights, and he's getting BURIED at the plate.

He also sucks vs the ~75-ish% of MLB pitchers who throw right-handed. I mean, Charlie fucking Tilson's wrc+ in 2019 v RHP was almost DOUBLE what Vaughn's is this season. People lost their fucking minds in that non-competitive season about Tilson, yet in a WIN NOW year, they want to see this kid continue to struggle?

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Vaughn, and I believe in his future. But 2021 may be the best opportunity to win for this team in this window. I'd hate to fuck this up, watching Vaughn get pantsed vs RHP.

[Two-Gun Pete]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Andrew Vaughn has been nearly a league average hitter (wRC+ of 98) But he needs to be demoted when the Sox have no outfielders on their roster and he's been more than adequate in LF. Holy moly, talk about some logical thinkers here at Soxtalk!

Vaughns Splits

Don't be disingenuous. His WRC+ vs. RHP is unplayable. His WRC+ vs all handed pitchers is in free-fall month over month. He's hurting this team, and he's not learning.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I think this lineup can manage against LHP [i.e. the small ~25-ish% of MLB pitchers] without Vaughn. Against the MAJORITY ~75-ish% RHP, he's fucking killing this team. And with every injury, he's killing the team more. I'd take my chances with other players NOW, in the hope that he can go to Charlotte and un-fuck his swing in time to help when rosters expand this fall.

Vaughns Splits Looking at this, he's not only taking a giant shit on this lineup vs. RHP, Andrew Vaughn is getting worse at hitting as this season has gone on:

March/April: wrc+ 110

May: wrc+ 102

June: wrc+ 80

 

And once again, his wrc+ vs RHP is a shitty 38. He is ACTIVELY hurting this lineup. He's getting BURIED at the plate, while wasting his controllable years. IDGAF how good he will do "someday." This is a WIN NOW season, and with every injury, every guy in the active roster has to pull MORE weight, not less. MLB SPs have him figured out, and he's not learning anything here. There is no shame in admitting that this team asked him to do the impossible. His day will come soon enough, but it ain't today.

 

Vaughn needs to go down, so that he can stop hurting this team, AND maybe he can get his shit sorted in time to come back up to help this team. RIGHT NOW, Goodwin, Leury, and Lamb are all better choices than Vaughn is right now, at least vs RHP. Platooning him isn't an answer, and neither is letting him continue to cirlce the drain while this team struggles. 

Thanks for the support but apparently judging by the ever popular emoji's there are a lot more people who believe Vaughn's development is far more important than winning now. Our minor difference of opinion between sending him down or keep playing him against LHP is also based on winning now because I  don't want the lineup to just "manage" against LHP . Every win is important to winning now even against LHP. The difference between getting home field advantage could be just 1 game in the standings and I don't like taking our best hitter against LHP out of the lineup or getting the chance to pinch hit in big situations against LHP.

[Dominikk85]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Still amazed when there's Home Field advantage and a possible World Series on the line to see someone say Vaughn is as bad as it gets but still play him against RHP as if Vaughn is more important than that.

I actually would not be against sending him down. However right now the Of just doesn't have much depth, once Eloy is back if Vaughn is still hitting sub replacement level against righties I would probably send him down for a month letting him figure out how to hit righties there. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Vaughns Splits

Don't be disingenuous. His WRC+ vs. RHP is unplayable. His WRC+ vs all handed pitchers is in free-fall month over month. He's hurting this team, and he's not learning.

Again, it is the sum of ones outputs that should be evaluated.

The Sox have no outfielders but somehow in your mind they should be starting.... who exactly? Vaughn should obviously play his way through his issues, and he's obviously helping the team much more than any possible replacements would be. The guy has literally won like 3 games this year late. Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezussss.

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Well, actually, he's countersued his accuser a few weeks ago, so perhaps there will be some clarity with that.

The alleged actions occurred solidly within the statute of limitations. So if the alleged victim has a case, then one would assume that she could go to the sheriff's office, file a complaint, and that would be that for Puig, his career, and his legal case.

 

However, the alleged victim hasn't done that, but rather, went straight for the cash, and [AFAIK] not gone to the sheriff's office. It is for this reason that I have my reasons to wonder about the veracity of her accusations. IF there's a case, then take it to the sheriff, who would take it to the DA, who would give them their day in court. One can always go back to court and get your cash damages later, or put a lien on his future earnings/pension.

 

Every one of these accusations should be investigated thoroughly, and if a criminal offense has occurred, then the accused should have their day in court, and if found guilty, serve a sentence. But I wonder why, in the day and age of "Me Too," that the Sheriff wasn't contacted about this.

Posts like this are such trash for no other reason, that in cases like this it is actually MUCH easier to prove a legal liability case on a civil level, than a criminal level, and past that SHE won't get put on trial when her accused should ACTUALLY be on trial because of how abuse and sex cases are currently tried.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Vaughns xwOBA is 337, which would put him right around a 108-112 wRC+, but yes... please lets send him down and call up Blake Rutherford or something. White Sox mania, 2021! The rational thinkers like Cali and two-guns are just speaking facts while the rest of us are naive to the idea of sending down your only healthy outfielder and replacing him with a guy who won't hit lefties or righties. Truly 4D TLR level chess going on here.

The White Sox just called up Luis Gonzalez lol with their latest OF injury and now they should send down Vaughn so they can call up another subpar AAA player. Genius!

Edited June 22, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

I actually would not be against sending him down. However right now the Of just doesn't have much depth, once Eloy is back if Vaughn is still hitting sub replacement level against righties I would probably send him down for a month letting him figure out how to hit righties there. 

I would be against that. Why send him down when you need his bat against LHP ? Again it's a winning now thing. Sending him down doesn't help winning now even though it's against a much smaller percentage of pitchers or even if it just adds another 1 or 2 wins with him in the lineup or pinch hitting against LHP I'll take his contribution happily and his contributions against RHP too since we all know he's going to get his chances there too.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Vaughns xwOBA is 337, which would put him right around a 108-112 wRC+, but yes... please lets send him down and call up Blake Rutherford or something. White Sox mania, 2021! The rational thinkers like Cali and two-guns are just speaking facts while the rest of us are naive to the idea of sending down your only healthy outfielder and replacing him with a guy who won't hit lefties or righties. Truly 4D TLR level chess going on here.

The White Sox just called up Luis Gonzalez lol with their latest OF injury and now they should send down Vaughn so they can call up another subpar AAA player. Genius!

Except I never said send him down . Duh. Pay attention.

[Kyyle23]

17 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Well, actually, he's countersued his accuser a few weeks ago, so perhaps there will be some clarity with that.

The alleged actions occurred solidly within the statute of limitations. So if the alleged victim has a case, then one would assume that she could go to the sheriff's office, file a complaint, and that would be that for Puig, his career, and his legal case.

 

However, the alleged victim hasn't done that, but rather, went straight for the cash, and [AFAIK] not gone to the sheriff's office. It is for this reason that I have my reasons to wonder about the veracity of her accusations. IF there's a case, then take it to the sheriff, who would take it to the DA, who would give them their day in court. One can always go back to court and get your cash damages later, or put a lien on his future earnings/pension.

 

Every one of these accusations should be investigated thoroughly, and if a criminal offense has occurred, then the accused should have their day in court, and if found guilty, serve a sentence. But I wonder why, in the day and age of "Me Too," that the Sheriff wasn't contacted about this.

I have to think that MLB teams would have sniffed around to see if there was a way to get around it.  The fact that he is going on this entire season and last year with no interest after the Braves dropped interest in him means there is something there that is giving them pause.  
 

plus, right or wrong the guy has a reputation of being a me-first dude.  

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Thanks for the support but apparently judging by the ever popular emoji's there are a lot more people who believe Vaughn's development is far more important than winning now. Our minor difference of opinion between sending him down or keep playing him against LHP is also based on winning now because I  don't want the lineup to just "manage" against LHP . Every win is important to winning now even against LHP. The difference between getting home field advantage could be just 1 game in the standings and I don't like taking our best hitter against LHP out of the lineup or getting the chance to pinch hit in big situations against LHP.

No, I get it. My thought is that if you send Mercedes and Vaughn down, perhaps they can get themselves reset in time to help down the stretch.

The schedule for the rest of the 1st half is favorable. So, I'd send both of them down, and ride with Goodwin/Leury/Lamb until hopefully Eaton and Hamilton get back before the end of the 1st half, then supplement the OF with a rental or two.

Then, perhaps Eloy and Robert come back in the 2nd half, OR Vaughn and Mercedes pick their heads up and get back to help. 

 

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Again, it is the sum of ones outputs that should be evaluated.

The Sox have no outfielders but somehow in your mind they should be starting.... who exactly? Vaughn should obviously play his way through his issues, and he's obviously helping the team much more than any possible replacements would be. The guy has literally won like 3 games this year late. Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezussss.

For the next few weeks, I'd ride with Goodwin/Leury/Lamb vs the weak opponents coming up. I'd give Burger his shot, and see where we are by the end of the 1st half.

 

Posters confuse the non-competitive seasons of the recent past, where letting a young player "play through his issues," when this is a WIN NOW season. Each and every game matters this year. In 2022, there might not be a season, or if there is, Lynn and Rodon will probably be long gone. There simply isn't any time for a struggling youngster to "play through his issues," IMO.

Let him work out "his issues" in Charlotte, and then it should be "next man up." YMMV.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Except I never said send him down . Duh. Pay attention.

Oh, you're right. You said you wanted to play Leury Garcia and his 77 wRC+ over him. Even better.

Two gun said he wanted to send him down and you played tummy sticks with that idea.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

No, I get it. My thought is that if you send Mercedes and Vaughn down, perhaps they can get themselves reset in time to help down the stretch.

The schedule for the rest of the 1st half is favorable. So, I'd send both of them down, and ride with Goodwin/Leury/Lamb until hopefully Eaton and Hamilton get back before the end of the 1st half, then supplement the OF with a rental or two.

Then, perhaps Eloy and Robert come back in the 2nd half, OR Vaughn and Mercedes pick their heads up and get back to help. 

 

For the next few weeks, I'd ride with Goodwin/Leury/Lamb vs the weak opponents coming up. I'd give Burger his shot, and see where we are by the end of the 1st half.

 

Posters confuse the non-competitive seasons of the recent past, where letting a young player "play through his issues," when this is a WIN NOW season. Each and every game matters this year. In 2022, there might not be a season, or if there is, Lynn and Rodon will probably be long gone. There simply isn't any time for a struggling youngster to "play through his issues," IMO.

Let him work out "his issues" in Charlotte, and then it should be "next man up." YMMV.

You'd give Burger his shot... in LF? 😂

Leury Garcia has an xwOBA of .266, Vaughns is .337. But you'd play Leury. Got it.

[southsider2k5]

Also the idea that somehow we have better players than Andrew Vaughn in the minor leagues buried below the 9 OFs we have employed this season at the major league level already is almost certainly false.  It is the epitome of back up quarterback syndrome.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Somehow in your mind the win-now mode means bringing up a guy who has played 34 professional games in 4 years and putting him in the OF - when he's never played the OF in his entire life, and had two Achilles tears. Amazing stuff all around.

The Sox lost one series. They'll lose more. Hope we don't have to deal with these absurd overreactions after everyone.

The Sox need to go get an outfielder, not replace Andrew Vaughn with Jake Burger and play Leury Garcia more.

[maloney.adam]

Rick Hahn are you there?

[Two-Gun Pete]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Posts like this are such trash for no other reason, that in cases like this it is actually MUCH easier to prove a legal liability case on a civil level, than a criminal level, and past that SHE won't get put on trial when her accused should ACTUALLY be on trial because of how abuse and sex cases are currently tried.

Look, I understand all of this. But, choosing to go for a civil trial doesn't exactly prevent this sort of thing from happening to others. In the day and age of "Me Too," and in California, one would assume that the accuser would have a better chance than in different times than today, or in a different jurisdiction than SoCali.

The other curious angle is that the obvious choice for attorney is Gloria Allred; This sort of case seems tailor-made for her, and she's got an office in LA.

 

I won't belabor this further, but I do agree that all of these sorts of cases deserve thorough investigation, and where appropriate, arrest, indictment, trial, and sentence, if the accused is guilty..