Chisoxfn Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 Lets objectively look at things (cause they can't just become the Steelers ownership group overnight): Launch both Nagy & Pace - Check Ensure GM Role reports to ownership (and not Teddy) - Check Since George admits he can't do the hiring - Find an adviser to help (Polian) - Check Appears that they at least have preliminary list of names and Polian didn't just come in now (sounds like him and other confidential parties were involved for a while) - Check Not bringing in president role - Miss (but in grand scheme not a huge miss - because as people point out - this isn't done in the NFL like it is a bit more in baseball/basketball) Keeping Ted involved - Miss (end of the day Ted wasn't going to get canned - but the big change is the role NO LONGER reports to him - that is a meaningful change and creates the division everyone wanted prior to this conference). But I can't see Ted's view overriding Polian. So bottom line - if I think about what could happen - I get it, people don't like that George is making another hire, but that is what it is. But I got the vast majority of what I wanted out of this. Now I'll wait to see what they do next. And George was right - the fan base will have all the questions they have and continue to do until the performance of the field changes and consistently changes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: Lets objectively look at things (cause they can't just become the Steelers ownership group overnight): Launch both Nagy & Pace - Check Ensure GM Role reports to ownership (and not Teddy) - Check Since George admits he can't do the hiring - Find an adviser to help (Polian) - Check Appears that they at least have preliminary list of names and Polian didn't just come in now (sounds like him and other confidential parties were involved for a while) - Check Not bringing in president role - Miss (but in grand scheme not a huge miss - because as people point out - this isn't done in the NFL like it is a bit more in baseball/basketball) Keeping Ted involved - Miss (end of the day Ted wasn't going to get canned - but the big change is the role NO LONGER reports to him - that is a meaningful change and creates the division everyone wanted prior to this conference). But I can't see Ted's view overriding Polian. So bottom line - if I think about what could happen - I get it, people don't like that George is making another hire, but that is what it is. But I got the vast majority of what I wanted out of this. Now I'll wait to see what they do next. And George was right - the fan base will have all the questions they have and continue to do until the performance of the field changes and consistently changes. This is where you and @bmags aren’t grasping the concept. Today could have been different if George came out and said “We aren’t going to repeat the same process we took with Phil Emery and Ryan Pace. As of today, Ted Phillips no longer has any contact with anything that transpires on the field. He is focused on the Bears as a business. Because of that, we now need to hire a President of Football Operations. That job starts now, and a committee comprised of Bill Polian, Name, Name And Name will be in charge of finding the right person for the job. Ultimately I will hire that person, but once completed, that person will find us the next GM and HC of the Chicago Bears.” That’s how you get fans on your side, give them some hope things are changing. Instead, we literally got the exact same press conference we seem to get every 5-7 years. And you can’t understand why fans and media are upset? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: But that is the thing - to me - those that want a president - well the president gets hired by George (so not a GM rather a president...but same thing in grand scheme of things). It was why I said for those that complain George was making the decision - would it really be worth if Ryan Pace was instead? I still think as an ownership group - the Bears job is relatively attractive relative to majority of the crappy openings. Bears brass admits they don't know football and therefor will give them a ton of control and flexibility. It is on them to make it happen. I'd also argue they are generally more patient (as long as you aren't a complete clown from a relationship perspective) than a lot of the franchises who, like the Bears, are regularly a part of the hiring cycle. If I was a candidate - the Bears would be really attractive because of the flexibility ownership would give me - especially now that Phillips is officially removed and I now report directly into the owner. I also will say - its semantics - but Polian is a huge upgrade over Acorsi. Polian has been a front office guy for 3 separate teams - all of which made the Super Bowl under his watch (Bills, Panthers, and Colts). That is pretty impressive. My only question is the obvious - how can he truly know what to recommend without really seeing how things work, but it does seem like the Bears have made major improvements within the building and around and the fact that they hit on late round picks is a testament to the scouting team they have developed (which the new GM can inherit and obviously refine from there). Right. It eventually will lead to George anyway. George just has to be smart enough to let football people make football decisions. He can see how the money works with others, but there is no way he should be involved in football decisions. Polian should be making this hire. Edit. I thought George oonsulted with Polian, now I am reading he just read his book. Well, maybe somehow he will get lucky. Edited January 10, 2022 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 20 minutes ago, bmags said: Is George McCaskey himself hiring a GM just astronomically better than including Ted Phillips? It's the same, it may be marginally improved with ted. It doesn't matter. The inclusion of Polian, etc is about as good as it can get with the ownership they have. They aren't going to fire themselves. And they would still have to hire a President, I really don't understand the difference. They can still get this right because they are going to pay tens of millions of dollars of someone with a highly sought after job opening to a whittled down group of candidates. And they can still get it wrong because this shit goes wrong every year anyway to lots of organizations. Who knew the giants would become such a shit show with a much more successful family ownership. Thank you for explaining how sports work. That was very helpful for this process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 That pesky media, they always get it wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) Complete embarrassment by George McCaskey, he is no more qualified than my barber to run the Bears. Bears problems begin and end with lucky sperm club McCaskey’s F’N sell. Edited January 10, 2022 by Soxfest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 24 minutes ago, Tony said: This is where you and @bmags aren’t grasping the concept. Today could have been different if George came out and said “We aren’t going to repeat the same process we took with Phil Emery and Ryan Pace. As of today, Ted Phillips no longer has any contact with anything that transpires on the field. He is focused on the Bears as a business. Because of that, we now need to hire a President of Football Operations. That job starts now, and a committee comprised of Bill Polian, Name, Name And Name will be in charge of finding the right person for the job. Ultimately I will hire that person, but once completed, that person will find us the next GM and HC of the Chicago Bears.” That’s how you get fans on your side, give them some hope things are changing. Instead, we literally got the exact same press conference we seem to get every 5-7 years. And you can’t understand why fans and media are upset? That is semantics - it is no different than what it is happening now. It is such a minor thing. I get it - from a PR perspective it would be a better win - but from a reality of the situation - they are basically doing that (Polian and George are going to make the hire and yeah Ted is in the room but Polian is who they are leaning on). They don't need to hire a president of football ops (who essentially is the GM vs. Asst). What they need to do is hire a really good GM (call it a GM, call it a pres, whatever). Hiring candidates is what it is - there are only so many ways to interview so yeah - it is going to be similar to the last time (which by the way is how many front offices, if not the majority go about their hiring) but obviously they made a relatively sizeable structural move (with the role now reporting into the owner...just like the "president" role that you would want would report in). By the way - I would have been even more happy if I did hear Ted wasn't involved and they were hiring a president of football ops. But it doesn't mean the reality is much different than George & Polian (with Ted in the room) hiring a GM who has full control and ownership of football operations, directly reporting into the owner. And unless the Bears came out and announced Bill B or Sean Payton were immediately coming - no matter what George did would have gotten picked on. Looks like Bears have already requested formal approval to interview Frazier. This is meaningful for two reasons - one, no matter what they do they have to get through minority candidates. 2 - Frazier is obviously an outstanding candidate. I only mention the minority piece because if they were going to go for Jim H - they have to go fast (I don't see Harbaugh move happening a month from now - if it happens it happens fast). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Kreuetz asked Heistand if his $15 an hour recollection was correct. Heistand told him it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Kreuetz asked Heistand if his $15 an hour recollection was correct. Heistand told him it was. George is full of 💩 this will backfire on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 29 minutes ago, Tony said: This is where you and @bmags aren’t grasping the concept. Today could have been different if George came out and said “We aren’t going to repeat the same process we took with Phil Emery and Ryan Pace. As of today, Ted Phillips no longer has any contact with anything that transpires on the field. He is focused on the Bears as a business. Because of that, we now need to hire a President of Football Operations. That job starts now, and a committee comprised of Bill Polian, Name, Name And Name will be in charge of finding the right person for the job. Ultimately I will hire that person, but once completed, that person will find us the next GM and HC of the Chicago Bears.” That’s how you get fans on your side, give them some hope things are changing. Instead, we literally got the exact same press conference we seem to get every 5-7 years. And you can’t understand why fans and media are upset? He could have said that, but the reality of it isn't that different from what you described so I guess I don't care. Steve Cohen totally nailed his press conference, flattered all the fans who knew exactly what they wanted to hear. But then steve cohen had to hire a bunch of people and voila. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 14 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: That is semantics - it is no different than what it is happening now. It is such a minor thing. I get it - from a PR perspective it would be a better win - but from a reality of the situation - they are basically doing that (Polian and George are going to make the hire and yeah Ted is in the room but Polian is who they are leaning on). They don't need to hire a president of football ops (who essentially is the GM vs. Asst). What they need to do is hire a really good GM (call it a GM, call it a pres, whatever). Hiring candidates is what it is - there are only so many ways to interview so yeah - it is going to be similar to the last time (which by the way is how many front offices, if not the majority go about their hiring) but obviously they made a relatively sizeable structural move (with the role now reporting into the owner...just like the "president" role that you would want would report in). By the way - I would have been even more happy if I did hear Ted wasn't involved and they were hiring a president of football ops. But it doesn't mean the reality is much different than George & Polian (with Ted in the room) hiring a GM who has full control and ownership of football operations, directly reporting into the owner. And unless the Bears came out and announced Bill B or Sean Payton were immediately coming - no matter what George did would have gotten picked on. Looks like Bears have already requested formal approval to interview Frazier. This is meaningful for two reasons - one, no matter what they do they have to get through minority candidates. 2 - Frazier is obviously an outstanding candidate. I only mention the minority piece because if they were going to go for Jim H - they have to go fast (I don't see Harbaugh move happening a month from now - if it happens it happens fast). We just see things way different. They are doing things the same way they always do. George took over in 2011 and doesn't have a playoff win to his name as Owner. Expect similar results. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 The other problem the new coach and GM have is they, just like Nagy with Mitch, have to be married to Fields. While Fields has a ton of potential, he did have the 4th lowest QB rating for anyone starting 10 games since the came up with stat. On 12/25/2021 at 10:08 AM, Balta1701 said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 21 minutes ago, Tony said: We just see things way different. They are doing things the same way they always do. George took over in 2011 and doesn't have a playoff win to his name as Owner. Expect similar results. Enjoy! Ok - so your point is we have a crappy owner. So whether he said what you wanted or what he did it would be a moot point. Literally that is your statement. Nothing I can do to change fact he is the owner. Either George hired a crappy GM and they suck or he does what you say and hires a crappy president (who has that title but really is the GM) and they suck. Tomato / tomatoe because George is a crappy owner. I think JR holds Sox back too - nothing I can do about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said: What does it matter - you can't fire an owner. It is what it is. This is ultimately the first and most important owner for the Bears to clear. Ultimately, the owners are going to be the ones making the decision on who to hire as The Guy, whether it's President of Football Operations or GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: The other problem the new coach and GM have is they, just like Nagy with Mitch, have to be married to Fields. While Fields has a ton of potential, he did have the 4th lowest QB rating for anyone starting 10 games since the came up with stat. I at least thought George had good answers where they asked him about style, candidates wed to Fields etc. He didn’t fall for those and just said the people need a plan. He can look at Arizona who did a do over right away with success. I would be surprised though if bulk of candidates or any candidate said Fields can’t be it. Rather I suspect they all talk about getting relationship with coach and QB right, putting weapons around, maximizing skill set and getting rest of roster right. From there you consistently evaluate QB and if it isn’t right pull the ripcord and try again knowing you have the right parts put around etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 What a way to treat the most devoted fans ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Kreutz was on the score Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 minute ago, StrangeSox said: Kreutz was on the score I think I heard from someone else - that Kreutz was offered the "standard" contract for that type of role...which happens to be $15/hr. I think that is what George implied - that Olin wasn't telling the whole story - just part of the story. But I am not sure and it went back to the question I asked earlier - without knowing what the going rate for that type of role is - I have no idea what to think (but I do get that any normal person would read that and go wow, pro football player gets paid an amount in-line with what you get paid to flip burgers at In and Out burger - that is crazy and Bears are cheap). The above may be true too - maybe other teams pay $100/hr. I literally have no idea, but until I have context it doesn't matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Tony said: That pesky media, they always get it wrong! I always remember this headline when USC hired Pete Carroll. The fanbase, the airwaves - everyone was outraged. The media is entitled to opinions - but they are also in their role for clicks, advertising, etc. So no - I don't judge things based upon how the media reacts and whether it approves. How many teams that are off-season champions end up in-season champs, etc. For Pete's Sake USC, Why did you do it? https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-dec-16-sp-904-story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Just now, Chisoxfn said: I always remember this headline when USC hired Pete Carroll. The fanbase, the airwaves - everyone was outraged. The media is entitled to opinions - but they are also in their role for clicks, advertising, etc. So no - I don't judge things based upon how the media reacts and whether it approves. How many teams that are off-season champions end up in-season champs, etc. For Pete's Sake USC, Why did you do it? https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-dec-16-sp-904-story.html You clearly don't judge the Bears on results either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tony said: You clearly don't judge the Bears on results either. I very clearly have - it just isn't fun or worthwhile to just say - george will never figure it out. He may never - I don't agree with any of that. I just think your ultimate complaint is wrong. You are arguing about what the Bears did when you real argument is that George is the one in charge. At the end of the day that is your problem and I don't have an issue with it at all - but I don't know what to do with that. Cause we as fans can't change ownership. You can scream for them to change coaches, gm's, etc, but nothing I can do is going to stop them from being the owners. I was pretty clear that it was time for a change and quite frankly - today was a win. It wasn't the full win that I wanted - but it was still a positive as far as I'm concerned. Now to see who they hire and what they do. And I may hate what they do or like it - reality is even that doesn't matter as much as the end result. The results are what matter in the long run. And they will probably remain to stink because that is what they do - but that is just an easy / lazy answer. You want me to give an eval on George - he too gets an F - they have made the playoffs twice since 2011 - that is miserable. Guess what - as owner he can keep picking until the board replaces him with a different McCaskey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 22 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: Ok - so your point is we have a crappy owner. So whether he said what you wanted or what he did it would be a moot point. Literally that is your statement. Nothing I can do to change fact he is the owner. Either George hired a crappy GM and they suck or he does what you say and hires a crappy president (who has that title but really is the GM) and they suck. Tomato / tomatoe because George is a crappy owner. I think JR holds Sox back too - nothing I can do about that. No, that's not my point, but it's the reason I'm frustrated with both you and @bmags, because you think the media and fans are being unfair to the Bears and aren't actually listening to the points being made, but instead calling the small, semantical differences when they are anything but. I'll try one more time, then I'm actually done. The Bears have been an absolute mess since George took over in 2011. That's a fact that can't be argued. They have never won a playoff game with him as Chairman. In the case of Ted Phillips, someone who has been CEO since 99, and I believe that's good for 23 years on the job and 6 playoff appearances, none resulting in a Super Bowl. Phillips, has up until this point been responsible for bringing in GM's to this organization since he arrived, and as we noted....hasn't done a very good job. Today, after George fired yet another GM/HC combo, we learned that while Ted will no longer have the GM and HC report to him.....he'll still have a voice in the room and help find the next GM of the Bears. The new GM will now report to George, WHO IN THE SAME PRESS CONFERENCE WAS ASKED TO EVALUATE JUSTIN FIELDS AND HIS RESPONSE WAS "I'M JUST A FAN." I already described what should have taken place. 1. Ted Phillips should be removed from any decision-making when it comes to football. That did not take place as he will have a hand in picking the next GM. That point can't be argued. 2. If George just wants to be a fan that happens to own an NFL team, then he shouldn't have any say in football matters either. As I said earlier, create a team and find a President of Football Ops. Then let that guy go out and find a GM and Coach. You say that's just semantics, but it's anything but. Let's take Ryan Pace for example. Under the current Bears structure, if Pace wanted to bounce ideas off someone, maybe speak to someone a little more veteran than he is.....he had to sit down with Ted and George. That alone is terrifying. Rick and Kenny can talk to each other. Arturas and Eversley can talk to each other. Theo and Jed could talk to each other. But god forbid anyone could be above Ryan Pace...He's got "George The Fan" for advice! Quite frankly you're being incredibly lazy with your takes and effort here. You're coming at me saying: Quote "So your point is we have a crappy owner. So whether he said what you wanted or what he did it would be a moot point. Literally that is your statement." When in reality, that's not what I've been saying at all, and instead YOUR the one who's saying "Well I give George an F for performance but aww shucks, he's the owner, guess there isn't anything else we can expect and I guess we just have to keep rooting for them and hope they luck into winning! Go Bears!" Bullshit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Michael was bad, George doesn't seem to be a football person and almost admits it, the problem is the rest of the McCaskeys probably know less about football than those 2 or they would have a bigger voice. Bears fans are stuck with George. Maybe he gets lucky and hires a gem. Chances are it will be more of the same, but at least it isn't guaranteed. George actually fired Pace. That is huge. Maybe something will be different this time. Considering how much money they blow on guys like Glennon and Foles and Dalton and Graham, you wonder why they don't hire a guy like Polian or a Jimmy Johnson type to head the football department. Be the guy to bounce things off the GM. Be another evaluator. Give recommendations to them and George. Straighten it out once and for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhead Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Tony you are spot on with your comments. Exactly what I was hoping to see today, exactly what didn't happen today, exactly unsurprised one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tony said: No, that's not my point, but it's the reason I'm frustrated with both you and @bmags, because you think the media and fans are being unfair to the Bears and aren't actually listening to the points being made, but instead calling the small, semantical differences when they are anything but. I'll try one more time, then I'm actually done. The Bears have been an absolute mess since George took over in 2011. That's a fact that can't be argued. They have never won a playoff game with him as Chairman. In the case of Ted Phillips, someone who has been CEO since 99, and I believe that's good for 23 years on the job and 6 playoff appearances, none resulting in a Super Bowl. Phillips, has up until this point been responsible for bringing in GM's to this organization since he arrived, and as we noted....hasn't done a very good job. Today, after George fired yet another GM/HC combo, we learned that while Ted will no longer have the GM and HC report to him.....he'll still have a voice in the room and help find the next GM of the Bears. The new GM will now report to George, WHO IN THE SAME PRESS CONFERENCE WAS ASKED TO EVALUATE JUSTIN FIELDS AND HIS RESPONSE WAS "I'M JUST A FAN." I already described what should have taken place. 1. Ted Phillips should be removed from any decision-making when it comes to football. That did not take place as he will have a hand in picking the next GM. That point can't be argued. 2. If George just wants to be a fan that happens to own an NFL team, then he shouldn't have any say in football matters either. As I said earlier, create a team and find a President of Football Ops. Then let that guy go out and find a GM and Coach. You say that's just semantics, but it's anything but. Let's take Ryan Pace for example. Under the current Bears structure, if Pace wanted to bounce ideas off someone, maybe speak to someone a little more veteran than he is.....he had to sit down with Ted and George. That alone is terrifying. Rick and Kenny can talk to each other. Arturas and Eversley can talk to each other. Theo and Jed could talk to each other. But god forbid anyone could be above Ryan Pace...He's got "George The Fan" for advice! Quite frankly you're being incredibly lazy with your takes and effort here. You're coming at me saying: When in reality, that's not what I've been saying at all, and instead YOUR the one who's saying "Well I give George an F for performance but aww shucks, he's the owner, guess there isn't anything else we can expect and I guess we just have to keep rooting for them and hope they luck into winning! Go Bears!" Bullshit. Sorry for implying it was a temper tantrum, I can see from your post it is not a temper tantrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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