51 minutes ago, mqr said:

Strikes and Lockouts are both different kinds of work stoppages though. 

Double edit: there seem to be competeing definitions. So idk whatever

The difference being Owner Lockout is the current situation. There would be no “work stoppage” without an owner lockout.

Thousands of collectively bargained agreements expire, and both sides continue under the status quo until a final agreement is reached.

The Chicago Police Department’s  contract with the city expired years ago, yet there is no “work stoppage”.

The site can choose to be accurate, or it can promote owner propaganda, as though a “work stoppage” just naturally occurred and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

 

Thank goodness you are here otherwise delicate eyes might see that headline get sucked into the dark seedy world of owner-supported content until they are just a bunch of tiny manfreds walking around with stop watches timing everyone's movements

 

Just now, bmags said:

Thank goodness you are here otherwise delicate eyes might see that headline get sucked into the dark seedy world of owner-supported content until they are just a bunch of tiny manfreds walking around with stop watches timing everyone's movements

Well thank goodness you are here to post garbage and attack posters. This thread title is as garbage as the "Assholes" Playoff Game thread titles.

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Thank goodness you are here otherwise delicate eyes might see that headline get sucked into the dark seedy world of owner-supported content until they are just a bunch of tiny manfreds walking around with stop watches timing everyone's movements

And obviously the good and innocent people of Soxtalk are too stupid to understand the complexities of this, and only a thread title can save them.

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

And obviously the good and innocent people of Soxtalk are too stupid to understand the complexities of this, and only a thread title can save them.

Or you can actually use a title with the accurate situation.

1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Well thank goodness you are here to post garbage and attack posters. This thread title is as garbage as the "Assholes" Playoff Game thread titles.

Then create your own website and do whatever you like.  Until you actually are willing put in your own work on your own site, instead of welfare stating it off of the backs of the people who volunteer here, it couldn't matter less what you think of the thread titles.  In fact, feel free to find yourself a page that fits your obviously delicate state.

 

 

i think a system that will allow players to become free agents sooner will really help free spending teams like the White Sox who always seem to get their man. 

6 minutes ago, Texsox said:

i think a system that will allow players to become free agents sooner will really help free spending teams like the White Sox who always seem to get their man. 

I know you were joking but I actually think if you placed each team on a line of who it helps or hurts most the sox would definitely be on the "helps" side since they don't create a sustainable pipeline of young talent. As bad as Hahn was at this in the first half of his tenure, over the last 20 years you'd easily say the white sox pro-scouting org exceeded the intl/amateur scouting.

7 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

I am already bored with this shit. 

Honestly me too. I have no idea why I keep coming back here. There really isn't a point right now. Force of habit I guess.

15 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Honestly me too. I have no idea why I keep coming back here. There really isn't a point right now. Force of habit I guess.

Yepppp

44 minutes ago, bmags said:

I know you were joking but I actually think if you placed each team on a line of who it helps or hurts most the sox would definitely be on the "helps" side since they don't create a sustainable pipeline of young talent. As bad as Hahn was at this in the first half of his tenure, over the last 20 years you'd easily say the white sox pro-scouting org exceeded the intl/amateur scouting.

I actually don't know that is true. I actually don't think the pro-scouting is easy to evaluate cause they haven't done a lot of mega deals anyway but they certainly have had their misses, etc.  But as bad as their system has been from a rankings perspective, you could field a pretty good team based upon guys acquired at minor league levels (via trade draft international etc).  They did have a period though that was not good - but had they just not made the Smardtza trade they would have been so much better depth wise (Bassit, Semien, Montas).  That alone is a combined 45 WAR for .3 WAR (Jeff's WAR with Sox)

Anderson

Tatis Jr

Sale

Quintana

Robert

Abreu 

Moncada 

Kopech

Semien

Escobar 

Vaughn

Engel

Montas

 

24 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I actually don't know that is true. I actually don't think the pro-scouting is easy to evaluate cause they haven't done a lot of mega deals anyway but they certainly have had their misses, etc.  But as bad as their system has been from a rankings perspective, you could field a pretty good team based upon guys acquired at minor league levels (via trade draft international etc).  They did have a period though that was not good - but had they just not made the Smardtza trade they would have been so much better depth wise (Bassit, Semien, Montas).  That alone is a combined 45 WAR for .3 WAR (Jeff's WAR with Sox)

Anderson

Tatis Jr

Sale

Quintana

Robert

Abreu 

Moncada 

Kopech

Semien

Escobar 

Vaughn

Engel

Montas

 

Of course, the Mets and Yankees both messed up with Quintana...although there were extenuating circumstances attached.

Also doesn't include Bassitt.

Montas came from Red Sox or Rangers? Dodgers?

Edited December 2, 20214 yr by caulfield12

3 hours ago, mqr said:

Like half the owners are completely uninterested in baseball and are more concerned about the real estate venture their teams represent. 
 

What I’m getting at is Manfred is bad for baseball because the people who hired him don’t give a shit about it. 

Cannot argue with you there.

Both sides need a work stoppage to prove they are really serious.  After a few weeks of not talking they will get together again and agree it looks hopeless.  Somewhere in late January, they will announce we are in danger of a delay in Spring games and pushing back the season.   When the players realize the paychecks aren't coming and the owners can't sell tickets they will get serious on both sides.  Very predictable and aggravating to the fan who just wants to watch his team and dream of titles.

6 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Both sides need a work stoppage to prove they are really serious.  After a few weeks of not talking they will get together again and agree it looks hopeless.  Somewhere in late January, they will announce we are in danger of a delay in Spring games and pushing back the season.   When the players realize the paychecks aren't coming and the owners can't sell tickets they will get serious on both sides.  Very predictable and aggravating to the fan who just wants to watch his team and dream of titles.

In 1994, the owners under-estimated the players' resolve. So, the owners took JR's advice and decided to stonewall the negotiations. They embarrassed themselves with the replacement players and then got slapped down by the National Labor Relations Board. The World Series didn't happen and spring training was a joke. Yes, the players will miss their checks, but they have enough money to ride out the storm. Trying to break the union didn't work in 1994-95, didn't happen in 1981, and won't happen now. And, if it does happen, it will come at a high cost. The players don't need to run to the table to make concessions. They have leverage. The owners just don't learn from history. And, as always, the White Sox will get hurt the most. If JR has any power to stop this, he should do what he can. But maybe he doesn't want to stop it, or the other owners don't listen to him anymore.

2 hours ago, bmags said:

I know you were joking but I actually think if you placed each team on a line of who it helps or hurts most the sox would definitely be on the "helps" side since they don't create a sustainable pipeline of young talent. As bad as Hahn was at this in the first half of his tenure, over the last 20 years you'd easily say the white sox pro-scouting org exceeded the intl/amateur scouting.

That's a great point. Now let's add forcing teams to raise their payroll to the landscape. Using the Pirates as an example. If they have to raise payroll $20 mil are they going to suddenly be in the market for a top tier free agent or will they be inflating the market for the Luery Garcia's of the world? Either way players will be paid more. Folks were worried that signing a sub to a 5.5 million deal could hurt down the road, wait until he's a 7 million dollar guy.

I just don't see the team being more competitive by losing Roberts sooner and hoping to sign a comparable free agent at inflate prices. 

4 minutes ago, Texsox said:

That's a great point. Now let's add forcing teams to raise their payroll to the landscape. Using the Pirates as an example. If they have to raise payroll $20 mil are they going to suddenly be in the market for a top tier free agent or will they be inflating the market for the Luery Garcia's of the world? Either way players will be paid more. Folks were worried that signing a sub to a 5.5 million deal could hurt down the road, wait until he's a 7 million dollar guy.

I just don't see the team being more competitive by losing Roberts sooner and hoping to sign a comparable free agent at inflate prices. 

RoberT

The biggest loss, other than to Year 1-3 players being woefully underpaid, has been low to mid 30's veterans being priced out of the market (replaced by cheaper youth) and the general unfairness of the international free agency system, guys like Ohtani in particular.

Capable relievers, starters and superstar position players are much better off.

Catching salaries have fallen for all but the most elite, and that's only 5-7 guys.

Edited December 3, 20214 yr by caulfield12

If they do want to change to six years of control (or total years from signing date), they definitely have to balance it...because Latin American prospects starting at age 14-16 are on totally different timelines than a junior or senior NCAA All-American who hits the big leagues within 1-2 years of being drafted, but usually debuts at 23-24.

Of course, the real key for the majority of players is having team control at ages 25-29.

As I have said before...I'm not going to lose any sleep over the millionaire players or the billionaire owners.  I'll watch and play golf and let them worry about their differences.  They aren't worried about me and I won't spend any time worrying about them.  

3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

As I have said before...I'm not going to lose any sleep over the millionaire players or the billionaire owners.  I'll watch and play golf and let them worry about their differences.  They aren't worried about me and I won't spend any time worrying about them.  

Clearly you’re spending time writing posts about it?

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Clearly you’re spending time writing posts about it?

I probably post 25% of my usual pace but you are correct that it's not at 0% yet.  

8 minutes ago, poppysox said:

As I have said before...I'm not going to lose any sleep over the millionaire players or the billionaire owners.  I'll watch and play golf and let them worry about their differences.  They aren't worried about me and I won't spend any time worrying about them.  

I’d venture that 75% of players aren’t millionaires.