Listened to the podcast that Chuck Garfien did with Harold Reynold and I think Reynolds was spot on when he said that if nothing is reached on Monday, we are in a really bleak situation.  

I still mostly side with teh players on this but I think at a certain point, there needs to be some compromises made.  The reality of it is though is that as much as baseball is dying, if the game itself just embraced people like TA, Tatis, Eloy, etc, I think it's popularity would start to tick up again.  These big personalities who are really trying to bring in some of the spectacle that you get with basketball.  

2 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Well, as Ned Flanders' parents said, "We've tried nothing, man! And we're fresh outta ideas!"

I get where you're coming from. But what, exactly, have they tried to teach him a 3rd pitch? How have they tried to maximize this asset/his ability?

 

I feel like them doing Jack and Shit to even try to see if Crochet could ever fulfill his potential is yet another royal fuckup. I mean, I don't think they've even tried to give him some time in MiLB to figure his shit out; it hasn't exactly been as though the rest of the division was right on their heels, and they desperately NEED him to rescue the BP, IMO...

They never developed him properly. They sacrificed his ability to start to help save the bullpen in 2020. They needed to be playing the long game. 

The other thing is that for some reason the Sox still believe in his changeup. Idk why. His changeup is like 2-3 mph away from his slowest fastballs of 2020. 

 

19 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

I'm not ready to go that far, but sadly I don't believe we will see baseball any time soon.

It'll be delayed now, at the very least, no doubt about it. I remember a long time ago before covid, some people on here predicted this would happen. That right when the Sox turned good, the cba would expire and baseball would be cancelled to some extent. Right after the rebuild. I didn't believe them, shunting them as negative nellies, but boy were they ever right. Cudos to yall, whoever you are.

Last minute deal not looking so good huh? Well at least there are 4 days left.

Just now, Bob Sacamano said:

Last minute deal not looking so good huh? Well at least there are 4 days left.

They shot themselves in the foot. At least that's what it's looking like will happen. It's their own fault.

Dear MLB, where you go next is putting a legit deal on the table that meets the players in the middle.  Enough of this petty bullshit refusal to budge in the slightest.  You have had all winter to figure out what compromises needed to be made in order to hammer out an agreement but here you are, pretending like you are all out of ideas before you have even tried.  It is insulting as a fan to watch.  Get your shit together and work out a deal.  We want baseball already.

Players proving themselves to be absolute jokes, nothing but ridiculous “proposals”. Fuck them

I think we have a good spectrum of hating both sides in the last 2 posts.

Now someone has to make a move to break things up. Take the difference between the two sides on every issue and move only 5% of the way, but do it on everything. See if the other side reciprocates - if they don’t, they’re single handedly blocking progress after you made your move. 

TBH, I would guess that the players would have to do that because the owners wouldn’t get everyone to agree, but either side could do it. 

Unless something starts moving towards a breakthrough in a major way like that I don’t know what else can happen.

JFC, they have made two proposals in six months and this is the crap they pull?

 

10 minutes ago, Goober said:

Players proving themselves to be absolute jokes, nothing but ridiculous “proposals”. Fuck them

What about the owners and their almost non-existent proposals?

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I think we have a good spectrum of hating both sides in the last 2 posts.

Now someone has to make a move to break things up. Take the difference between the two sides on every issue and move only 5% of the way, but do it on everything. See if the other side reciprocates - if they don’t, they’re single handedly blocking progress after you made your move. 

TBH, I would guess that the players would have to do that because the owners wouldn’t get everyone to agree, but either side could do it. 

Unless something starts moving towards a breakthrough in a major way like that I don’t know what else can happen.

This is starting to feel like 60 games or nothing like 2020. 

It's also starting to feel like the owners endgame is 60 game seasons with 16 playoff teams. 

Edited February 24, 20224 yr by Jack Parkman

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

This is starting to feel like 60 games or nothing like 2020. 

It's also starting to feel like the owners endgame is 60 game seasons with 16 playoff teams. 

I think there’s a chance of a grievance being filed and decided first?

For every crazy belief there is a crazy believer. Let's just blame the players. Greedy. 

The MLBPA must really love the owners going out to the press and accusing them (dishonestly) of bad faith. I'm sure that really helps when they sit down.

Joe gets it. 

 

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I think there’s a chance of a grievance being filed and decided first?

Is there a way, under labor law, that the players could file a motion that MLB is not negotiating in good faith? 

This is what is happening here. 

Edited February 25, 20224 yr by Jack Parkman

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

The MLBPA must really love the owners going out to the press and accusing them (dishonestly) of bad faith. I'm sure that really helps when they sit down.

Projection is a hell of a drug. 

You think MLB owners realize how much the public is against them right now? How much things have changed and fans are not as ignorant as they once were? Are they that disconnected from reality? Or do they just not care? I mean I know we arent in the rooms but...seriously. 

48 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

You think MLB owners realize how much the public is against them right now? How much things have changed and fans are not as ignorant as they once were? Are they that disconnected from reality? Or do they just not care? I mean I know we arent in the rooms but...seriously. 

I mean they're billionaires. That should answer your question. 

1 hour ago, ScooterMcGee said:

You think MLB owners realize how much the public is against them right now? How much things have changed and fans are not as ignorant as they once were? Are they that disconnected from reality? Or do they just not care? I mean I know we arent in the rooms but...seriously. 

So later will you support the players? Go to games? Watch them in TV? Maybe buy a jersey or cap? 

28 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I mean they're billionaires. That should answer your question. 

Selig acknowledged that the strike (1995-95) had torn an irreparable hole in the game's fabric. The move to cancel the rest of the season meant the loss of $580 million in ownership revenue and $230 million in player salaries. In 1994, the average MLB salary was an estimated $1.2 million.

 

Of the adults polled (now this was back in 2012, so MLB has lost 2-4% calling it their favorite sport and NBA/NCAAB, NFL/NCAAF have clearly gained), 34 percent said pro football was their favorite sport, not surprisingly making it the top dog in American sports. Actually, I'm surprised the gap wasn't wider. Baseball checked in at No. 2 with 16 percent of the vote, followed by college football (11 percent), auto racing (eight percent), men's pro basketball (seven percent), hockey (five percent) and men's college basketball (three percent).

Now, I found the headline on adage.com a bit odd. It was "Look out, baseball, college football is hot on your cleats." I found it odd because, last year, baseball and college football were tied for second at 13 percent each. So baseball gained three percentage points, college football lost two and it's "look out, baseball?"

The reason for that headline would be that demographics show the younger crowd prefers college football over baseball, but still, there's this:

According to a study by Scarborough Research, 109.3 million people, or 48% of U.S. adults over 18 years of age, watched, attended or listened to an MLB game from February 2011 through March 2012.

That compares to 92.6 million, or 39% of adults, who watched, attended or listened to a college-football game during the same period.

Even if (when?) college football does surpass baseball in popularity, I'm pretty sure having more than 100 million people paying attention to a sport means it'll survive just fine.

Still, I doubt this will quiet the persistent "baseball is dying" crowd. I have no idea why some are so eager to say baseball is dying, but we'll let them maintain their delusion while our favorite game thrives.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/poll-finds-baseball-second-most-popular-american-sport/

 

 

It really feels (at least to me) that the owners are so confident behind their exploding franchise values and increasingly diversified revenue streams that they continue to maintain the belief that destroying the union might be more valuable to them financially (over the short term) than losing another 10-15%, maybe even 20% of MLB fans.

That's how much LESS the impact of losing season ticket buyers, concessions, souvenir sales (so much now is online and world-wide in scale) and parking revenues...compared to where things stood nearly three decades ago (1994-95 cycle).

What happens to those fans under age 25 or age 30 who are already devoted to e-sports is another question altogether.

 

Edited February 25, 20224 yr by caulfield12

Both parties had 50+ days to discuss things before they started actually started discussing things. Complete garbage. Neither side deserves support at this point.

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Is there a way, under labor law, that the players could file a motion that MLB is not negotiating in good faith? 

This is what is happening here. 

That is exactly what happened in 1995 to start the season. 

Whether labor laws have been weakened since then I cannot say.

 

36 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Both parties had 50+ days to discuss things before they started actually started discussing things. Complete garbage. Neither side deserves support at this point.

It takes two to tango and MLB never had any intention of dancing. Why would you attempt to do business with someone that despises you and in response to your offer came back at 75% and said take it or leave it?

You wouldn't.